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Old 06-23-2004, 02:49 AM   #1
phonymike
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Default Make the news page several tables

I don't know about other people, but I have cable, and the main page just sits there on pause waiting for all the news to load. I usually don't even bother letting it load, so I jump to these forums. My guess is it takes at least 10 seconds to appear on a good day. I've heard IE doesn't show a table until the whole thing is loaded, so you gotta download the whole fricken page before even one headline is displayed.

Please, no ignorant responses like "get a real browser like firefox." Chopping the main page into several tables doesn't hurt anyone, yet has so much to gain. If a design could be implemented, that'd be cool.

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Old 06-23-2004, 04:50 AM   #2
SwampGas
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

We've been waiting on a redesign since January of last year.

If you know a web designer that will work on trade, send them my way.

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Old 06-23-2004, 05:28 AM   #3
Lobster Cowboy
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

> If you know a web designer that will work on trade, send
> them my way.

what kind of trade?

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Old 06-23-2004, 06:12 AM   #4
SwampGas
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

> what kind of trade?

Publicity.

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Old 06-23-2004, 07:24 AM   #5
Lobster Cowboy
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

> Publicity.

sounds good to me

what do you need? if you handle the php and server side stuff, i can work exclusively on layout. i see places where we can cut bandwidth, yet provide easier navigation.

i'm seriously looking to nab a client to bolster my web portfolio, and this would be a fun way to do it. i'm in if you want me. if not, that's cool, too. i'd really like to bounce ideas off each other, see which direction you want to go. ZD has some tough problems to solve, but i'm confident this can be done, and done well.

you know my IM, so give me a buzz and tell me what you think

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Old 06-23-2004, 08:32 PM   #6
packardmelan
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

Didn't I offer to work on a redesign when I was staff for that month? I remember converting some of the Emu pages over to one of those templates.

I still wonder what happened to that whole "new ZD" layout.

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Old 06-27-2004, 07:44 PM   #7
Canar
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

> Please, no ignorant responses like "get a real browser like
> firefox." Chopping the main page into several tables doesn't
> hurt anyone, yet has so much to gain. If a design could be
> implemented, that'd be cool.

Nonono for the love of God don't use tables. Well, okay, use tables if you want to yell in a very loud voice: "I'm a retard who can't lay content out with some level of intelligence." That's the interpretation for modern web design anyhow... the ZD layout was originally created when tables were still a "good idea", so don't consider that as an insult.

The current ZD layout is perfect for a simple main-body/float design, like my page is. I use two floats, which ups the complexity somewhat. Furthermore, it wouldn't need much of a change to do that. I could recode (a version of) that stuff in an afternoon as a stop-gap measure for the new layout, if any of you would appreciate that.

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Old 06-27-2004, 08:14 PM   #8
AkaneJones
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

What the hell are you talking about tables are the very basis of standard html almost every site uses them they just happen to have the borders turned off. Hell ZD even uses tables in it's coding already... I don't even know how you design a website without tables, unless you used flash.

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Old 06-27-2004, 08:31 PM   #9
Arson
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

> What the hell are you talking about tables are the very
> basis of standard html almost every site uses them they just
> happen to have the borders turned off. Hell ZD even uses
> tables in it's coding already... I don't even know how you
> design a website without tables, unless you used flash.

First of all, let me thank you. I laughed harder at your post than I've laughed at anything for several weeks, if not longer. It's clear that you don't know anything about HTML, so I'm not going to flame you, but I will offer a bit of an explanation.

First of all, Canar was right. Any experienced web designer would vomit at the prospect of using tables to control the layout of a page. This was fine 5 years ago when there were few options, but today we have CSS. With CSS, it's quite easy to position data on the page in whatever form you want. It's far more flexible *and* efficient, not to mention proper, to use CSS for positioning data than to rely on tables. You'll find that any decent site that isn't using a design that is over 5 years old (such as is the case here) does not use tables for their layout.

The only drawback is that older browsers can't render CSS properly, but there's no excuse for using a browser that old. I've ran IE6 on a 120Mhz Pentium with only 32MB of RAM and it worked perfectly fine. If someone's computer isn't powerful enough to run a modern browser, they can easily upgrade to one that will for around $50.

Tables were never meant to be used for layout, they were used to define specific bits of information. It goes against the HTML specifications to lay out a page using tables. Of course, HTML has been deprecated and is no longer being updated, but that's a whole different issue.

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Old 06-27-2004, 08:35 PM   #10
Canar
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Default Re: Make the news page several tables

> What the hell are you talking about tables are the very
> basis of standard html almost every site uses them they just
> happen to have the borders turned off. Hell ZD even uses
> tables in it's coding already... I don't even know how you
> design a website without tables, unless you used flash.

No flash. CSS. Proper web design. Where content and layout are different elements. Using tables is idiocy that two kinds of web-designers use when designing modern webpages:

1. websites that are designed to be backwards compatible with NN4.x and IE3.x
2. amateurs

http://www.csszengarden.comCSS Zen Garden</a> <-- check that out. If you think you can't design websites without tables... wow. The only excuse I can think of is that your webdesign experience comes from the '90s. The W3 specs have been out for proper table-free design since the days of the 4.x browsers. Hell, the spec became a recommendation December 17, 1996.

I'm not knocking old designs. Old designs use tables. That's okay. Modern designs do not and should not, with the one exception I've listed.

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