Healthcare

[shawn]

I'm watching Obama now on CNN and the republicans are just sitting there while the democrats are all up clapping. One part he says "all people deserve healthcare" and not one republican stood.

Now I hear all these republicans telling their voters during elections on how abortions are wrong and how the church says it's an abomination. Well isn't letting someone die because even though they work they can't afford a doctor or insurance the same thing when in many cases these people can be made perfectly healthy with little effort?

Obama missed one huge thing he could have said to either have shamed them "doubtful" or made the people that support them think about their own support for these people. It's just asking one simple statement with a question after and it would make many just stop and think about this entire issue.

He should have said "I know a majority of the republicans here claim to be very religious and I have one question for you to think about when it comes to insuring the poor and sick."

"If faced with this situation, what would Jesus do?"

I know that's used for a joke often online, but right now it seems that if I was religious this would make it a moral imperative to get healthcare insurance for everyone. If they think about this and can still say that we shouldn't help the working poor or sick then I believe they are either lying about their religion or they don't have a clue about religion and compassion at all.

[Isildur]

He can't actually say that, because he would land in hot water for mixing church and state, but I agree with your sentiment and frustration.

There are some honest objections that could be raised about some of the details of the plan. But rather than just rationally arguing about such points, many in the GOP have been enjoying dragging the whole discussion down with batshit insane wharrgarbl about death panels and the like. Even the members of the GOP who have been more restrained have been disappointing, in their inability to stand up when they should and criticize their colleagues for poisoning the discussion with wild rumors and claims.* This is an extremely serious subject which should be addressed in a clear-headed manner, not with hysteria.


The other night, it was depressing to see McCain on the Tonight Show, when askyoured by Conan about Palin's moronic "death panel" inventions, unable to criticise her statements. I don't care if she's his former running mate; in such a situation, an inability to unambiguously contradict such lies, when asked you opinion on them, is a moral failure.

McCain did not say he agreed with such nutty allegations, but he made some mealy-mouthed reply like "Well, I'll just say that there is an issue, which is that in some countries where such health care plans have been implemented, doctors have been forced into some difficult decisions over what kind of care they can provided to whom." Ugh, way to avoid answering the question.

If he doesn't want to say "that Wasilla wacko is an unending embarrassment to me", then fine, I can understand that he doesn't want to be insulting. But how freaking hard is it to at least say "I was disappointed to hear that such outlandish claims came from someone I otherwise have great respect for" ?

[shawn]

I was just watching Morning Joe "MSNBC" and they had a republican congressman on. His answer to why there was a huge BOOO echoed when the President mention illegal immigrants getting healthcare was because there was no MANDATE for VERIFICATION.

This seems like they're just using a small oversight in the writing of the bill and not an actual intent to insure illegal aliens in any way which I myself would be against. I swear the people that believe these guys that are pushing these bullshit points are very naive.

Maybe some people with talent ought to take these republicans spewing this stuff and make a video of their speeches and during the video rebuts each item in large text one by one. If these videos went viral on Youtube and other sites it would eventually get viewed by the republican followers and possibly enlighten them to the actual situation. It would have to be totally honest and straightforward to work or the video's WOULD be used against the Presidents plan but it could cause a lot of public outcry aimed at these liars from their own people that has been duped.

[shawn]

I guess the man who said Obama lied actually lied or is very stupid himself. On DIGG I found this just now.


I ask anyone that is a regular on other boards other than ZD to pass this on by posting it at those forums also and ask others to do the same. It will become common knowledge and reported on the TV news soon if we do this and then it will be thrown into the face of the idiots that have lied about it and these morons will be voted out. If we do this stuff consistantly we can fix our country and remove the people screwing it up.

Thank you.



http://mediamattersaction.org/factcheck/200909090009


In reality, Rep. Wilson is the liar. Neither the President's plan, nor H.R. 3200 cover undocumented aliens.

House Bill: "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens." According to America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, Page 143, Line 3, Section 246: "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." [America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, accessed 7/22/09]

[shawn]

I guess CNN reads their emails. I emailed this link I posted to them and not a 1/2 hr later there was an breaking update and they showed the email on a fact checking part "without my name" but I could tell since it was the exact thing including the white background I posted here.

It worked faster than I thought it would.

[InVerse]

You know, I think you hit the nail on the head.... What would Jesus do? Jesus would heal everyone for free. The solution to our health care problem is to make the doctors stop charging money for it, as well as the pharmaceutical companies, medical schools and anyone else financially involved.

Personally, I was in favor of health care reform until I heard that health insurance would be mandatory for all Americans. That's a crock of shit. I generally refuse health insurance because it's a waste of money. I have it very explicitly stated in my living will that if I am so sick/injured that it will cost more than $100 to fix me, then I don't want fixed. If they want to make it to where you can't get medical help without insurance, that's fine with me, but if they're going to force me to pay for something I don't want and won't use, there's going to be a big problem.

[The 9th Sage]

Originally Posted by Isildur

There are some honest objections that could be raised about some of the details of the plan. But rather than just rationally arguing about such points, many in the GOP have been enjoying dragging the whole discussion down with batshit insane wharrgarbl about death panels and the like. Even the members of the GOP who have been more restrained have been disappointing, in their inability to stand up when they should and criticize their colleagues for poisoning the discussion with wild rumors and claims.* This is an extremely serious subject which should be addressed in a clear-headed manner, not with hysteria.

This is the biggest problem I've had with the 'debate' so far. Instead of rationally debating the plan (or any plan) I've seen way too much FUD. Like you said...death panels? My reaction when I first heard this thought was (and I'm really not kidding): "What the hell? Are they high or something?"

[puduhead]

I'm becoming a lot more cynical about Obama and the Dems ability to pull this off. And not in the context of the GOP. I'm simply doubting that any real reform can occur without a public option. And passing legislation that offers some semblance of reform and also MANDATES health insurance seems like a bait and switch to me.

At this point i'm inclined to take a more libertarian view on this: Since it is sounding like you won't actually help the health care situation by taking steps towards socialization, striking a blow to class warfare, then just stay the fuck out of it. Don't pass bullshit and tack on a mandate.

/hasn't actually read the bill

[Fla Flash]

Originally Posted by InVerse

Personally, I was in favor of health care reform until I heard that health insurance would be mandatory for all Americans. That's a crock of shit. I generally refuse health insurance because it's a waste of money. I have it very explicitly stated in my living will that if I am so sick/injured that it will cost more than $100 to fix me, then I don't want fixed. If they want to make it to where you can't get medical help without insurance, that's fine with me, but if they're going to force me to pay for something I don't want and won't use, there's going to be a big problem.

I agree with you 1000%,
And no, smartasses, I don't qualify for Medicare or SSI yet. Jesus.

I'm just waiting to see how they punish people who can't pay for it. Would it be like drivers caught in states without Auto Insurance? Are they going to suspend your right to breathe or something?

The system is broken. These fucking circus clowns we've elected are dragging their asses.
We need to stop electing people who are upper and upper-middle class.

Let's get some people in there who want to work.

[The 9th Sage]

Originally Posted by Fla Flash

Are they going to suspend your right to breathe or something?

This is going to be the next headline on Fox News. >_<