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Old 10-05-2009, 01:50 AM   #11
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I'm in love with 2D games, but there are some 3D games that I play. But looking over at my bookshelf, I realise that I have more SNES games alone than I have 3D games.

The way I see it, 2D games are awesome, but sometimes, 3D is needed (depending on genre). for example, Sidescrollers and top down games obviously need to be 2D, whereas racing and 1st/3rd person shooters only exist in 3D. RPGs are kind of a mix. Obviously there's alot more potential in a 3D RPG, but they always have to ruin it by making everything take a half hour to do. In a 2D rpg, you can fight a boss in 3-5 minutes, and then watch a 'cinematic' or story progression for another 2-3 minutes, advancing the plot significantly in less than 10 minutes. In a 3D RPG, it takes about 30 seconds for the fight to start, and then about 20 seconds for each overexaggerated special attack, and another 10 minutes of cinematic. I'm not going to lie, this is why I have so much trouble playing modern RPGs.

What's cool for anyone who loves the 2D genre (honestly, comparing 2d to 3d is like comparing a book to a movie), is Nintendo. The GBA and DS have so many classic 2D games like Metroid Fusion / Zero mission, so many castlevanias, Fire emblem x3. The DS has 2 Castlevanias and that mario game that I've never played and more, i'm sure. In addition, the WII has alot to offer in it's Wii ware, such as a new Contra, which is pretty good, and the sequel to FF4, which despite being terribly unbalanced and poorly constructed, is actually alot of fun and has a pretty good story, you just have to look past it's many flaws.

But at the end of the day, 2D is > than 3D for me.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:25 PM   #12
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I see what you're saying, but when I play something like Metroid Prime 3...it just feels really great. Then again, Wiimote + nunchuck is about the closest thing to a mouse and keyboard setup on a console unless you're hooking a mouse right up to the system or something (I *think* some X-Box games support this? Maybe?)
Nintendo is really an exceptional company. I now have Metriod Prime 1&2 for Gamecube and the level of control intuition for gamepad is adequate. Really nice games (haven't played the Wii one).

That being said, i'm still looking forward to the day i can play them on my PC with mouse/kb in emulation.
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:10 PM   #13
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well i think everyone sees it's two different creatures....thats why nintendo is going back to the 2d like a lot of the ds games as well as the new mario coming out for wii(no not galaxy 2 -the other one)
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:35 AM   #14
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Nintendo is really an exceptional company. I now have Metriod Prime 1&2 for Gamecube and the level of control intuition for gamepad is adequate. Really nice games (haven't played the Wii one).

That being said, i'm still looking forward to the day i can play them on my PC with mouse/kb in emulation.
Gamecube/Wii emulation works better than you'd think...need a pretty good system for it though. Anyway, you ought to get Metroid Prime Trilogy (assuming you have a Wii). You'd get the third game, and the first two with Wii controls (and little tweaks like some bugfixes and real widescreen support).

They control really well, the accuracy is very good. After playing MP3, it felt really weird to go back and try to replay the Gamecube ones with the GC's controller. It's weird, because like you I had no problem with the controls of them. It only started to feel weird after I felt how good the Wii controls were. :P

*edit*
Also....mmmm...Mario Galaxy. That is an example of an incredibly well realized 3-D game right there. Galaxy is astounding. Anyone who has a Wii and hasn't played it should feel ashamed.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:53 AM   #15
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I always had trouble with Zelda OOT but I think with the wii controller it would actually make it a much better gaming experience just because of the controller once I got used to the controller.

I am though holding off buying one though. I figure like anything 1st generation the next version controller ought to iron out all the shortcomings of the current version and add stuff no one even thought of.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:00 AM   #16
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Also....mmmm...Mario Galaxy. That is an example of an incredibly well realized 3-D game right there. Galaxy is astounding. Anyone who has a Wii and hasn't played it should feel ashamed.
I have a Wii, and the game, and barely have touched it. What does that say about me? ;p
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:12 AM   #17
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I think people have the wrong idea here. Take 2D RPGs and 3D RPGs there isn't the perceived difference there is stated in this thread. Look at any 2D Tales of and and 3D Tales of they are just as long in the cinematics. The only change was they use 3D models and the battles systems are on a 3D plain instead of a 2D one. Fact is if they went back to 2D cuts scenes would just be done in Anime and take as long, it was the increasing disk space that brought about that change.

Really 3D can bolster backgrounds from the top down perspective. Although I think static vertical cameras could allow good use of drawn art character on 3D backgrounds relying on highres 2D texture art to make something that is 2D but 3D. However what is wrong is the obsession with making 3D uber realistic, rather than more artsy and stylistic.

Besides 3D doesn't mean behind the back Mario64 style or first-person. I mean Phantasy Star did first person back on the SMS and if you ever seen the Generation version...
(Stupid google and no useful screen shots on that)
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:25 PM   #18
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Look at any 2D Tales of and and 3D Tales of they are just as long in the cinematics. The only change was they use 3D models and the battles systems are on a 3D plain instead of a 2D one.
Look at FF4 or FF6 vs FF7 or FF8. Or Knight's of the Round / Omni Slash vs Meteo / Bahamut / Bum Rush / Ultima.

I think the point that I was trying to make earlier about 3D RPGs was that people have become obsessed with making every attack / Cinematic take forever in order to show off all the angles and details. It felt more like a movie than a game. I don't know about you guys, but I get enough of movies in movies.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:38 AM   #19
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I have a Wii, and the game, and barely have touched it. What does that say about me? ;p
Well, considering how much I love that game, I'm not sure. O_o

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Really 3D can bolster backgrounds from the top down perspective. Although I think static vertical cameras could allow good use of drawn art character on 3D backgrounds relying on highres 2D texture art to make something that is 2D but 3D. However what is wrong is the obsession with making 3D uber realistic, rather than more artsy and stylistic.
That's a good point...most of the 2-D Castlevanias (of recent years...read: after Rondo of Blood) have generally run on game engines that do 2-D with 3-D hardware. They sometimes use it for really neat backgrounds that give it a lot of depth at times when you're out wandering around in the castle (or whatever other area you happen to be in).
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Last edited by Reaper man; 10-07-2009 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Sage, you should know better. ;/
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Old 10-10-2009, 02:57 AM   #20
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KotR does 130k damage, though. I'm happy to sit through a long animation to break damage limit (it also isn't REALLY that long). Although I do like when you can use shortened versions of summons. Or when you do what FF8 did, give the player a good reason to drag out the summons. It does take too long for attacks, sometimes. One of my biggest issues with FF7 is that the long attack animations actually imbalance the game, because you're forced to either just have all ATB bars fill up or use one attack at a time while you wait in the items/magic menu for the previous attack to complete. It's only the relative ease of gameplay challenge that allows that to be acceptable. Also one of the reasons I hate FF7 fanboys.
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