Zophar's Message Domain

Go Back   Zophar's Message Domain > General Chat > Talk of the Town

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2008, 01:45 AM   #11
JadussD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,100
Default

Dave Mustaine got Dissection and Rotting Christ kicked out of a festival because he converted to Christianity and didn't want to support "Satanic" bands. Not that Dissection and Rotting Christ were very good bands at that point; they'd long lost that nihilistic "something" that most metal bands can't handle for more than a few albums before they find their real selves after finding their across the abyss, get past adolescence, or totally self-destruct and lose the mental war within that fuels the music.

Metal is a self-destructive sub-culture; the headbanging, drinking, drug-use, the entropic chaos embedded in the artform, etc. Metalheads tend to fail at everything they do because they're mad at their fathers and have low self-esteem, and hence do the exact opposite of what their true selves want; this can be a road to self-discovery for some. I guess Dave Mustaine finally realized he really deep down wanted to be a Christian, but the hypocrisy of his actions is just stunning.

Metal, being so negative (entropic) tends to follow the phenomenon noticed by William S. Burroughs (who may have been the inspiration for "heavy metal", which he used in his book Naked Lunch, if I remember correctly, to describe the feeling of modern industrial civilization) about drug addiction: Increasing efforts for decreasing returns. This is why in the 80s there were a lot of quality bands, but as the 90s camee there were more extreme bands, but fewer of high quality, and the need for more extremity finally petered out with the actions of the black metal bands who started advocating murder, arson, racism, and genocide, and towards the end of the movement started making music about ending all life on the planet. No one has really gone much farther than that, hehe.

Last edited by JadussD; 07-30-2008 at 01:51 AM.
JadussD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2008, 02:31 AM   #12
Rattlehead
Senior Member
 
Rattlehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hell...or Arkansas.
Posts: 292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JadussD View Post
Dave Mustaine got Dissection and Rotting Christ kicked out of a festival because he converted to Christianity and didn't want to support "Satanic" bands. Not that Dissection and Rotting Christ were very good bands at that point; they'd long lost that nihilistic "something" that most metal bands can't handle for more than a few albums before they find their real selves after finding their across the abyss, get past adolescence, or totally self-destruct and lose the mental war within that fuels the music.

Metal is a self-destructive sub-culture; the headbanging, drinking, drug-use, the entropic chaos embedded in the artform, etc. Metalheads tend to fail at everything they do because they're mad at their fathers and have low self-esteem, and hence do the exact opposite of what their true selves want; this can be a road to self-discovery for some. I guess Dave Mustaine finally realized he really deep down wanted to be a Christian, but the hypocrisy of his actions is just stunning.

Metal, being so negative (entropic) tends to follow the phenomenon noticed by William S. Burroughs (who may have been the inspiration for "heavy metal", which he used in his book Naked Lunch, if I remember correctly, to describe the feeling of modern industrial civilization) about drug addiction: Increasing efforts for decreasing returns. This is why in the 80s there were a lot of quality bands, but as the 90s camee there were more extreme bands, but fewer of high quality, and the need for more extremity finally petered out with the actions of the black metal bands who started advocating murder, arson, racism, and genocide, and towards the end of the movement started making music about ending all life on the planet. No one has really gone much farther than that, hehe.
Tsk tsk...such overused stereotypes. I gladly accept it when someone calls me a "metalhead", but the way that you describe metal is WAY off-course, seeing as how none of the bands that I listen to (i.e.: Megadeth, Nevermore, Iron Maiden) currently use drugs or abuse alcohol, and I seem to be doing pretty good in life. The only reason that some Metal bands portray a violent or satanic image is because of shock value. I have several friends in Death Metal bands that can vouch for me. They think that people's reactions to it are hilarious. Also, Dave didn't get Rotting Christ kicked off of that specific tour that you mentioned. He refused to play on that tour if Rotting Christ was also going to play.
__________________
Killing is my business...and business is good!


Click here to level up my card!

Rattlehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2008, 05:05 PM   #13
Cornellius
Senior Member
 
Cornellius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Québec/Canada
Posts: 2,787
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattlehead View Post
seeing as how none of the bands that I listen to (i.e.: Megadeth, Nevermore, Iron Maiden) currently use drugs or abuse alcohol, and I seem to be doing pretty good in life.
God, please, tell me you're not serious. You really thing that these guys don't do drugs ?
__________________
My job

Industrial electronic technician
Industrial mechanic (Millwright)
Cornellius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2008, 09:40 PM   #14
ToastyCheesy
Senior Member
 
ToastyCheesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 234
Default

I really can't picture, in my mind, Iron Maiden (or Bruce Dickinson, at least) doing any drugs, because they are the number one music influence to me... but then again, who knows

From Bruce Dickinson's wikipedia article:

"...and it was a huge shock to the system to realise that they weren't, that they didn't even aspire to be, really. Some of them did, maybe, but some of them, like Samson, were very frightened of the idea, some of them just wanted to have a good drink, a good shag and take some drugs, and I found that really, really difficult to relate to..."
ToastyCheesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 01:59 AM   #15
JadussD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,100
Default

It is true that Iron Maiden were known for not doing drugs; there are many metal bands who never used drugs, to be sure. Somehow I don't think Slayer used drugs either, although I could be wrong. Growing up around guys with long metal hair and T-shirts, I can say that I met very few headbangers that didn't do drugs. Excessive drinking, pot and sometimes speed use is a part of the metal underground culture to a large extent; it's fairly rampant. It is noteworthy that the dualistic, condescending, semi-sadomasochistic power dynamic in metal culture between the the artist and the listener leads to a situation where the "elite" (the innovating artists) are often more self-sufficient, confident, and less prone to rely on psychological crutches than the fans, who are often subtly mocked and derided in the lyrics, which can force a confrontation with the self. That said, many innovative metal bands used a lot of drugs.
JadussD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 02:53 AM   #16
ToastyCheesy
Senior Member
 
ToastyCheesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JadussD View Post
It is true that Iron Maiden were known for not doing drugs; there are many metal bands who never used drugs, to be sure. Somehow I don't think Slayer used drugs either, although I could be wrong. Growing up around guys with long metal hair and T-shirts, I can say that I met very few headbangers that didn't do drugs. Excessive drinking, pot and sometimes speed use is a part of the metal underground culture to a large extent; it's fairly rampant. It is noteworthy that the dualistic, condescending, semi-sadomasochistic power dynamic in metal culture between the the artist and the listener leads to a situation where the "elite" (the innovating artists) are often more self-sufficient, confident, and less prone to rely on psychological crutches than the fans, who are often subtly mocked and derided in the lyrics, which can force a confrontation with the self. That said, many innovative metal bands used a lot of drugs.

...pretty much nailed it there.
ToastyCheesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 04:48 AM   #17
wildcat
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: KTUS
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornellius View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattlehead View Post
seeing as how none of the bands that I listen to (i.e.: Megadeth, Nevermore, Iron Maiden) currently use drugs or abuse alcohol, and I seem to be doing pretty good in life.
God, please, tell me you're not serious. You really thing that these guys don't do drugs ?
Present tense? Sure. Now, past tense... Dave Mustaine probably did every upper known to man back in the 80s (hell, his name ends in "-aine"), but I'd bet he's clean now (most born-agains tend to be annoyingly so). Iron Maiden, though? Never have done (unless you count alcohol), and I'd be shocked to find out they ever did. It just doesn't fit their profile. (Can't speak for Nevermore.)

Then again, nobody ever believed Frank Zappa was clean, either.
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 04:57 AM   #18
JadussD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,100
Default

Just like no one believes that Metallica like to have sex with horses.

Edit:

Last edited by JadussD; 07-31-2008 at 04:59 AM.
JadussD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 05:52 AM   #19
wildcat
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: KTUS
Posts: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JadussD View Post
Just like no one believes that Metallica like to have sex with horses.
Um, fucking duh? Metallica doesn't fuck horses. Jeez.

/ They fuck goats
// And yes, Zappa was clean


Edit: Removed inappropriate image.

Last edited by Gil-Galad; 07-31-2008 at 10:16 PM.
wildcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 05:35 PM   #20
Gil-Galad
Senior Member
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 658
Default

Let's cool down on the unsuitable content in this thread, such as sex with horses and the image is also inappropriate for ZD.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:30 PM.

Contact Us - Zophar's Domain - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.