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Old 08-28-2009, 08:27 PM   #1
toasterhed
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Angry Power of the people

Before you disregard this entirely, please at least consider the words of Harry Brown. Take what you like and leave the rest. The point is made, even if it is about the Martha Steward case.

This has been on my mind for ages. When will the American people (as a whole, no finger pointing) STOP being afraid of their government and remind themselves that WE are the PEOPLE and we have the authority to exercise our rights and the powers that are associated with them?? Including telling the government where they can get off the bus if they screw up.

After all there are plenty of people whom have the power to do things, but perhaps fall short on the reason of having the authority to use that power.

We need a reform something awful. I fear we will quickly become a totalitarian nation, maybe even spanning our alleged "power" all over the world.

I know you can say, toast is just another paranoid conspiracy theorist... but I detest! "Allow me to retort!" (lol, thanks Samuel Jackson)

There is LOTS of evidence which substantiates it. Just look at your traffic lights, notice the lovely little cameras? What about your privacy on the internet, there have been many higher ups whom have said "Privacy is dead, get over it". Screw that.

Not to mention that all it takes is the sneaking suspicion you might do something and then they can red flag you. Just cause my arse. We all know that most of the time when things really go down that they are all up in someone's business, regardless if they had a legal right to do so. And they get away with it.

Cop harass children, beat on women, judges get tempermental from dealing with all the bs and just throw people in jail for the most minor infraction. No, not all cops or all judges and that's just the tip of the iceburg. It goes deeper, there are cover-ups, human rights violated every day... and your hard earned tax dollars being squandered while you suffer. Even if you are well to do financially, more money = more problems. Look at poor Martha Stewart... they hung her out to dry! She is quoted in an article on CNN's website stating:

"Martha Stewart invoked the name of Nelson Mandela, South Africa's persecuted anti-apartheid hero, saying "many, many good people have gone to prison."

http://money.cnn.com/2004/07/16/news...ha_sentencing/

Harry Brown, a Libertarian writer said it better than I ever could please, ignore all I have to say if you want but this man, said it all:

"The Martha Stewart guilty verdict is more than troubling. It is an outrage.

The very case itself typifies today's government an entity that is free to intrude in any area of your life, free to make up the rules as it goes along, free to allow prosecutors to make names for themselves in high-profile cases without facing any personal consequences, no matter what harm they do.

Let me make it clear that I don't know Martha Stewart, I've never seen her TV show, and I've never read any of her books or magazines. I don't know what kind of person she is, and I don't care. But I care deeply about the kind of country America has turned into one in which there is no firm rule of law and anyone can be prosecuted at any time for any kind of offense that the government wants to invent"

http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/MarthaStewart2.htm

And, the more screwed up the system gets, the more they try to squeeze the money and life out of each and every one of us. They want US to fix it but we elect them to do that job. It's about time they start doing it.

The system is defunct. Anyone have any ideas about how to give power back to the people and to keep corrupt individuals from exploiting the system, giving them things to hide behind when they screw up while we sit in jail for farting in the wrong direction?

Sorry, I know it's a bit rantish but I'm sick of it. I'm sick of seeing people lay down and take it. I say if they want to anally rape us, then I say we give them a reach around and rip their balls off.
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:36 PM   #2
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Not to disagree with power to the people and the government at time way overstepping their role in society, I agree with that.

I do know about Martha Stewart though, I watch the business news and if I remember right she was found guilty of insider trading and making a bundle at the expense of other investors of whatever stock she bought before the prices went up. She basically if playing poker by knowing what cards the deck contained before the deal and placed her bets beforehand I believe would a proper analogy.

I do also know they did throw the book at her to make her an example what could happen to even a famous and loved billionairess. True she should have possibly paid just a huge fine and not gone to jail but the SEC and court system wanted to make her high profile crime a lesson to everyone.

Mind you this is only to the best of my knowledge/memory.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
Not to disagree with power to the people and the government at time way overstepping their role in society, I agree with that.

I do know about Martha Stewart though, I watch the business news and if I remember right she was found guilty of insider trading and making a bundle at the expense of other investors of whatever stock she bought before the prices went up. She basically if playing poker by knowing what cards the deck contained before the deal and placed her bets beforehand I believe would a proper analogy.
Yup, that was pretty much it, as I recall.

Quote:
I do also know they did throw the book at her to make her an example what could happen to even a famous and loved billionairess. True she should have possibly paid just a huge fine and not gone to jail but the SEC and court system wanted to make her high profile crime a lesson to everyone.
Also... it's been quite a while, so i don't recall where I read or heard this, but I remember hearing from somwhere that the prosecutors really threw the book at her because they were pissed off that she unsuccessefully tried to go over their heads and use some connections to a few people in government to attempt put pressure on them to back off. Trying to pull something like that can backfire really badly.
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:51 PM   #4
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The fact that insider trading is a crime is ridiculous to me. Someone told Martha Stewart that bad news was about to come out about ImClone and she might want to sell her stock beforehand to avoid losing $50,000. What the fuck is she supposed to do, hold on to it knowing she'll lose tens of thousands of dollars? That would be completely stupid.

If the people who lost money on the ImClone deal couldn't afford to lose that money, then they should be punished for stupidly putting themselves at risk. And if they could afford to lose that money, then it's no big deal.

For the record, I have no love lost for Martha Stewart. I've had to deal with her brand at two completely different jobs, once at K-Mart where all of her products had to be displayed on specially prepared shelving and another time at a meat packing plant where all of her hams had to be specially boxed. So, on a personal level, if Martha Stewart were to develop asshole cancer, I'd garner a tiny bit of satisfaction from it.

Want a better example of a judge overstepping his bounds, though? During one of my court dates, I was sitting next to a man who had been arrested for failure to appear in court. I'm not sure what his original charge was but he showed me the letter that explained why he failed to appear in court on his scheduled date. That letter was from a well known local doctor stating that the man had been in a coma for two weeks. The man presented the letter to the judge and the judge ruled that the man was a "flight risk" and would be held in jail until his next court date.

As for power to the people... It doesn't exist in America. American citizens handed over all those rights to groups like the NRA. They wouldn't know how to revolt if their lives depended on it. Read up on the coup attempt in Venezuela in 2002. When Hugo Chavez was ousted from office, the people of Venezuela stormed the capital and the coup lasted less than 48 hours. If a coup managed to take place in the US, the people wouldn't fight back, they'd go raid Wal-Mart and then cry about how coups are unconstitutional.
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:37 PM   #5
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One thing we are reminded again and again is that we are a nation of laws. However those laws need constant retooling. And another major caveat to this is they require fallible humans to enforce them.

We don't have to look far to find major inconsistency within our judicial process. Punishments not fitting the crimes on both sides of the scale. Or some people walking while others do time.

A fairly recent legal stupidity would be the correlation between Pro Football Player Michael Vick's dog fighting and Entertainer Chris Brown beating up his girlfriend.

I love animals a great deal and can't fathom being cruel to them. But it seems absurd that amongst these two high profile cases involving public figures, and consequentially role models, only one of them did real time and it wasn't for beating humans.

What does it say of this nation of laws that, by correlation, valued a lower species over human life? Both should be regarded with respect but clearly there are improvements to be made.

That's just one obvious example but i'm sure we can all think of many more. Dunno what this had to do with your post exactly but that's all i got. haha :P
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:55 PM   #6
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I think T-Shirt Hell had the right idea. "Chris Brown should have to keep beating Rihanna until he's sick of it. That's what my dad did when he caught me smoking."
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:33 PM   #7
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I know Martha Stewart was unfairly made a scapegoat, but she did commit a crime, right?

Michael Vick tortured hundreds of dogs over a period of five years, so he got what he deserved. I hadn't been following the Chris Brown thing, but five years probation and 1,400 hours of community service isn't a light punishment, particularly for a plea bargain and first offense. I think that judges are really starting to crack down on celebrities more often, rather than letting them off easy, as they were more accustomed in years prior.

As for insider trading, because of the way the market works, officers of a company can make massive quantities of money and leave the average shareholder who wouldn't have access to that level of information broke. Insider trading often amounts to an act of fraud, which is why people with inside knowledge of a company's workings are investigated strenuously by the SEC. Without a ban on insider trading, it would probably be difficult or impossible to have a working stock market.

As for the major theme of this thread: If the government did it, we're guilty of it. Bill Clinton was the only one smart enough to enjoy cheating on our wives. Even if the guy you didn't vote for did it, you're still guilty. You participated in the system, you're guilty of the outcome.
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:30 PM   #8
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Even if the guy you didn't vote for did it, you're still guilty. You participated in the system, you're guilty of the outcome.
That's the single stupidest thing I've read all day. You're saying the people who OPPOSED a candidate are more guilty for his mistakes than the worthless pieces of shit that didn't bother to vote at all? Or are you saying that it's the oppositions fault for allowing the person to win instead of assassinating him?
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:07 AM   #9
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That's the single stupidest thing I've read all day. You're saying the people who OPPOSED a candidate are more guilty for his mistakes than the worthless pieces of shit that didn't bother to vote at all? Or are you saying that it's the oppositions fault for allowing the person to win instead of assassinating him?

Agreed. That's like saying if there's an accident down the street and you are driving down the street you are responsible to and the only way not to be responsible is to not own a car at all or never drive it.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:17 AM   #10
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By participating in the system, you legitimize the system. You also are giving your consent for the other guy to represent if your candidate loses. The blow job thing was kind of a joke, though. You are at least indirectly responsible for the actions your government takes, even if you voted for the other guy. I'm not totally sure a person who doesn't vote is absolved of responsibility, necessarily, but he at least passes the first test, by refusing participation in the system. Certainly a person living under a government, but not allowed to vote (immigrant, felon, minor) is not responsible for the actions of his government, but by voting, you are granting consent, with your voice, for the candidate who wins, regardless of how you voted. Jefferson wrote a similar sentiment into the Declaration of Independence, "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
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