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Old 01-04-2010, 08:37 AM   #1
CollinFalling
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Default Wii Emulation/Zelda debug rom

I've had a lot of free time lately and have be screwing around with the Wii's emulation.
I learned you can inject the n64 rom into a wad container to be read and emulated on the Wii.
I was wondering about the feasibility of injecting The Legend of Zelda - Ocarina of Time Debug rom and it actually functioning.
What do you think? Could it work?... because I know a hell of a lot of settings have changed to get it to run on any PC emulator.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:00 PM   #2
The 9th Sage
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It might work.... I was searching around and it sounds like someone did this with the Ocarina of Time (replacing it with the debug ROM) and it worked. I don't know the specifics though, nor will we give you a link (that'd be against the rules).
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:27 AM   #3
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I'm not really asking for a link or anything of the sort. I was just curious to see if it had been done before...as i still feel the need to experiment and do it myself. For shits and giggles of course.
But while I was researching, I came across an interesting forum post here:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...ad.php?t=23285

I can't really tell you the legitimacy of the information given, but if true...it gives a good look into the history of the good old' Zelda debug rom that has been floating across the web the past few years.

Here is the post that caught my attention:

"Okay, most of you are on the right track - but that's not the whole story. :P

In short terms, yes, it was leaked from NoE itself. I don't know what dept it came from (suspecting QA) - but of course, the only way to get something like this is to get a developer who was working on the emulation side of the project. The game itself couldn't be ported in time as the game itself was on a strict time schedule, and most of the game's engine took advantage of the N64 hardware with MIPS assembly and a mixture of C. The only quick way was emulating the game by out sourcing development to "a group of people" who were hired to write an emulator (I can't say who, sorry - it isn't important anyway). Of course, since it's Nintendo, they only outsourced what was nessassary - so this meant only final and debug builds of the game were sent for development - no source. This build was only built 2 minutes after the final version, so this was compiled along side the finalized code.

However, Nintendo (or somebody else) does keep a good record of all the things used in development of the game - as the maps suggest it. I personally don't know what the original ideas for the compilation were - but I personally believe they wanted to aim for much more besides a few object placement changes. They still have all the old maps you've seen, as well as old builds and test maps, and the tools of the trade. AND, they even have older versions of retail maps (see map number 125 ) Which of course is no surprise. What strikes me, is that the so called "finished version of Ura Zelda for the DD" was never even brought up during development of Master Quest. So I don't know if they lost the code, couldn't compile it into the rom, weren't interested in DD emulation - the people they outsourced emulator development had no insight into it.

The rom itself was kept in secret for about a year, when one of the friends of the original developer had a copy of the rom and decided to tell other people about it. It wasn't until maybe two years after that we actually got the rom ourselves. Prior to all of this, I wanted to make a shoutout on a few rom site boards to see if someone still had a copy of both this AND some MM Kiosk rom. Of course, I had no results, but when we finally had the rom in our hands we decided to make plans to release it.

At the time, I had no idea what ASSEMblergames was, or what kind of people collectors were, so I had no idea how to release anything properly. I wasn't in charge of the planning of the rom (the friend of the developer was actually doing this without his permission - which later on, proved Nintendo never really gave a fuck), so I don't know what the original intentions were. I think we were working around the idea of fixing the rom, understanding it, and hacking it for a little bit until we released it - but I couldn't wait any longer. So finally I just asked the leader about it, and he gave me the okay. I didn't know where to release it first, so I did it on just a few boards hoping that it would catch on and magically appear in a GoodSet. Thankfully it did, but it all happened very slowly. And even then, not a lot of people cared of the fact that a rom of something like Zelda surfaced. Go figure.

The rom that was in the N64 GoodSet is actually a modified version of the game. The original, released along with it somewhere - and the tools to fix it manually were released along with it. Any copy of the rom that has the header "LEGEND OF DEBUG" is a modified version. But we didn't watermark with any name - like NintendoAGE (cough), we actually had good intentions with editing the rom. The original version of the rom had rooms 120/125 behaving irregularly and crashing, and those were maps that could be found in an actual Zelda 64 prototype. So we knew that we wanted to fix them so they could be loaded for everyone to play. For some reason, I leaked the original copy plus the tools to fix it originally. The hacked rom was what made it on to GoodSet.

And one last thing about that "rom found on unprotected webspace". First of all, that wasn't how it got leaked in the first place. I actually OWNED that space, and we kept rare prototypes of things and a copy of the GoodSet (password protected folder of course) - as well as a backup somewhere of that extensive guide to the rom (really awesome to read, and no one wanted to see History destroy it), so I made a copy of it. We kept all the roms there with the intent that we could share, so sorry guys, no conspiracy. Thanks for visiting the site though. :P

So there you have it, a brief look of the history/origins of the rom. I was relunctant to tell originally, but hopefully I won't draw a crowd since it really isn't an interesting story. And of course, no story would come complete with it's drama - which is why I kinda supressed the story for such a long time. I kinda wished it would spark an outbreak of other N64 prototypes being released, but sadly, no one came foward. But, I guess if it wasn't for LostLevels, Digitpress, and ASSEMbler - I never really could understand why.

I'm glad you all enjoyed the rom, since it's all that we're probably going to get. Hopefully something turns out in the future that will bring another oppertunity like this.

Thanks for reading~"
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:29 AM   #4
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Hmmm....that's pretty interesting. I know it's hard to verify the info, but I was always under the assumption that Master Quest was what was left of Ura Zelda. If what he says is true, then Ura Zelda was probably totally seperate from this (if it wasn't turned into Majora's Mask eventually).

Thanks for the post...I'd never seen this, and being a gigantic Zelda fan I'm always interested in this kind of story.
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:24 AM   #5
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Quite a bit of his story checks out when you look into it. Like that site he said he used to have, archived here:
http://web.archive.org/web/200704022...uff/oot_debug/

I guess I could imagine that Master Quest was what was left of Ura Zelda...but it strikes me as hard to believe they would make a full fledged peripheral expansion that was that sparse.
I think what he is saying checks out simply because it makes more sense for it to have been totally independent, if not just used in future Nintendo titles (like Majora's Mask like you said) as they enjoying doing. Kinda of like how Mario 128 got butchered into Super Mario Galaxy and Pikmin to name a few.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:29 AM   #6
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Well, from what I remember hearing, Zelda DD was supposed to be an expansion that used assets from Ocarina of Time (supplied from the Cartridge itself to reduce load times). It's hard to say what that meant though...I mean, though there was a lot that was new, Majora's Mask ended up reusing some stuff from OOT as well. (I know you're going to ask where I heard this, but it was so long ago I don't recall. I have no reason to doubt it though I suppose)

And yeah, I found his site myself before after I discovered the debug ROM for myself. Some pretty interesting things in there to be sure. It's also pretty interesting that Emu_Kidid said that it looked to have some kind of basic 64DD hooks (the emulator I mean, on the Gamecube). I doubt he'd lie about it, he's a pretty respectable guy and knows more than most people about programming for the Gamecube.

It makes me wish we'd be able to see someday what Ura Zelda was supposed to be. Surely someone (Miyamoto at least) has some information.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:27 AM   #7
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Huy! i have been able to find a lot of good stuff here. Thanks for the good work. Keep on going.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:42 PM   #8
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Hm, in an Iwata Asks, Iwata himself confirmed that Master Quest was indeed a recoded version of Ura Zelda. You can see it here. Figured you'd want to know.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:14 PM   #9
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Iwata: "That "Ura Zelda" (The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time: Master Quest) was developed for the 64DD5. Ultimately, we recorded it on a limited edition disc that went to people who reserved The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker"

While he does kind of confirm that it was just put in the Gamecube, I still have my reservations.
Like, if you look at the rom size of both OOT and Master Quest...they are the exact same size. Wasn't Ura Zelda supposed to go above and beyond with new enemies and what not? And it was claimed that one of the reasons if wasn't released on the N64 was its size prohibited it from fitting on a standard cartridge.
Master Quest isn't remotely close to what Ura was claimed to be.

Not calling Iwata a liar, but I think this may just be another conspiracy. lol.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CollinFalling View Post
Like, if you look at the rom size of both OOT and Master Quest...they are the exact same size.
Even more curious, when I got "Legend of Zelda, The - Ocarina of Time (U) (V1.2) [!].z64" and "Legend of Zelda, The - Ocarina of Time - Master Quest (U) (GC) [!].z64" then compressed them into 7z files using the default settings, I got a size of 23,011,689 bytes for OoT vs. 22,994,776 bytes for OoT-MQ. Slightly smaller when compressed.
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