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Old 09-17-2004, 03:38 AM   #1
Danoz
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Default "f President Bush is Elected...

Resolved: If President Bush is Elected, would it worsen world opinion of the United States?"

I have to argue in defense of this tomorrow in an informal debate with another person in my political argumentation class. Any ideas on how to tackle this? I've got a few myself, I'm interested in getting the opinion of the people I fight with most often <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

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Old 09-17-2004, 04:04 AM   #2
mFC
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

Moderator: You may go, Danoz.
Danoz: Yes, it will.
::end::

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Old 09-17-2004, 05:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> I have to argue in defense of this tomorrow in an informal
> debate with another person in my political argumentation
> class. Any ideas on how to tackle this? I've got a few
> myself, I'm interested in getting the opinion of the people
> I fight with most often

Canadians (well, all the ones i know anyhow) think very poorly of Bush. He has all but ignored us, despite the fact that we've done all we can to help him. Although we couldn't openly ignore the fact that the US was violating UN policy by going ahead with the Iraq thing, there were Canadian soldiers assisting. We've continually rolled over and ignored how the US has sleighted us, but popular opinion's turning. Beef bans, softwood lumber disputes, etc. Not good.

Anyhow, Kerry might make things more amiable. I liked the US more when Clinton was in office.


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</a>http://www-e.uni-magdeburg.de/drobek/lysergion.zipListen to my DJ mix</a></center></P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Canar on 09/17/04 12:20 AM.</FONT></P>
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Old 09-17-2004, 06:26 AM   #4
Danoz
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

Haha, you're killin me. I know this is a tough defense, but I've got a few ideas at how to attack it.

First off, "world" must be defined. The US is a super power, and as such, every move will be under extra scrutiny by the outside world. His reelection would ensure a follow through of policy already started, and a true continuation on the path set-- seeing it through wouldn't be likely to "worsen" world opinion more than it would keep it where it's at or make it slightly better. (You don’t have to tell me it’s anorexic. But if I can give reasonable evidence that his reelection wouldn’t necessarily make things worse overseas, bam… I win.)

Second it seems a severe lack of fairness has be given to the allies supporting us in the war on terror. Apart from countries like France and Germany (who were possibly protecting interests when so harshly going against the United States) the support from those advocating our position has been deemed as "coerced", insulting the intelligence of the people who continue to support our cause. They cannot be left out of the definition of "world".

I'll keep it going. It's an informal debate and I know it's thin, but it's got potential-- depending on the affirmative. Personally, I'd have actually found it easier to argue the other side (Hell, Europe and Canada for example have so much anti-American sentiment right now it's frightening).




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Old 09-17-2004, 08:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> His reelection would ensure a follow through of policy already
> started, and a true continuation on the path set-- seeing it through
> wouldn't be likely to "worsen" world opinion more than it would
> keep it where it's at or make it slightly better.

No, taking what the world currently hates about George W. Bush to extremes would worsen world opinion. World opinion of George W. Bush hasn't hit rock bottom yet, but another four years would probably redefine the meaning of the phrase.

> (You don’t have to tell me it’s anorexic. But if I can give
> reasonable evidence that his reelection wouldn’t necessarily
> make things worse overseas, bam… I win.)

If you could give that hypothetical evidence, yes, you would win. But I don't seriously think there's any way you could actually do that. Because:

1) You live in the US, not overseas.
2) You don't want to see contradictory evidence.
3) Your whole argument is based on a mixture of sand and bullshit.

> (Hell, Europe and Canada for example have so much
> anti-American sentiment right now it's frightening).

You need to realize that the sentiment isn't 'anti-American'. Only extremists and mentalists hate the US as a whole. Most of us just hate the current Bush administration.

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Old 09-17-2004, 09:15 AM   #6
thegodofhellfire
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> You need to realize that the sentiment isn't
> 'anti-American'. Only extremists and mentalists hate the US
> as a whole. Most of us just hate the current Bush
> administration.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Though if you guys re-elect him, we'll hold you equally responsible. And that's the crux of it - remember that your question isn't about the Bush administration, it's about the US generally. The world can probably accept the concept of his presidency being a horrible anomoly, but it will surely find it more difficult to accept a ratification from the public at large.

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Old 09-17-2004, 11:48 AM   #7
Fla Flash
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Though if you guys re-elect him,
we'll hold you equally responsible.

<hr></blockquote>


Exactly why I'm voting for Ash.

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Old 09-17-2004, 01:21 PM   #8
Danoz
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

You need to realize that the sentiment isn't 'anti-American'. Only extremists and mentalists hate the US as a whole. Most of us just hate the current Bush administration.

<hr></blockquote>

But does the world really find Kerry so much better? From my experiences online talking to people from around the world, the general thought is that Bush is a warmongering, simple-minded liar-- none of which have any real standing in any kind of debate.

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Old 09-17-2004, 01:24 PM   #9
Danoz
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

Why? Most Americans couldn't possibly share in the same hatred you have for President Bush. After all, general opinion overseas is that America has been partially brainwashed by Fox News, and most voting for him, genuinly believe him the be the best option for the USA. You already know that some 50 percent of Americans support the Bush Administration-- I can guaruntee you 50 percent of us would still be Republicans if Kerry were elected. Wouldn't your real feelings be more directed at the President and not the United States as a whole?

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Old 09-17-2004, 01:59 PM   #10
thegodofhellfire
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Why? Most Americans couldn't possibly share in the same hatred you have for President Bush. After all, general opinion overseas is that America has been partially brainwashed by Fox News, and most voting for him, genuinly believe him the be the best option for the USA. You already know that some 50 percent of Americans support the Bush Administration-- I can guaruntee you 50 percent of us would still be Republicans if Kerry were elected. Wouldn't your real feelings be more directed at the President and not the United States as a whole?

<hr></blockquote>

No, if the US electorate as a collective return GW to office, then the world wouldn't really care about percentages. If the administration can carry out these policies, and still be supported by a majority, then the world would regard the people generally as complicit in its activities. It's a perfectly reasonable conclusion.

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