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Old 09-17-2004, 05:32 PM   #11
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:20 PM   #12
WhyteKnight
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

Man I think you picked the shit end of this debate. When you say world opinion about the US though, do you mean the US citizenry, the US government, or what? Most people outside the US are only exposed to our government and the affluent dumbshits in bermuda shorts who go to their countries and act superior and if you're talking about US people then there's a chance the world's opinion is based upon these two factors - a bull-headed government and well to do travelers that think they're the cats pyjamas. Who wouldn't get a bad opinion of American people from that? I actually recall talking to one person from another country who genuinely thought that everyone in america had a big house with a white picket fence and an american flag in the front yard. And if you mean US government, I think the way the current administration has ignored a large part of popular world opinion and flouted the idea of working through the more equilateral channels like the UN has sort of axed a lot of potential good feelings. But. If you can get the opinions of some people from other countries in support of the shrub - regular you and me type people - that could give you some ground for an argument.

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Old 09-17-2004, 09:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Man I think you picked the shit end of this debate.

<hr></blockquote>
Well, the debate didn't go too bad overall. In the end I just proved that the affirmative viewpoint ultimately couldn't know whether or not the world opinion would change for the worse. I also worked on the talking point that not fighting terrorism would ultimately worse on public view of America in the long run. The advocate of the topic got a little off topic, also-- comparing Bush to Hilter ect. I was able to attack that once the focus was shifted.
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

When you say world opinion about the US though, do you mean the US citizenry, the US government, or what?

<hr></blockquote>
Yea, we agreed at the end that the proposition was poorly worded. In fact, the next debate has it changed. It's better. I know this because I wrote it . It goes: "Resolved: That the current level of anti-American sentiment existing today is justified." Of course, I'm arguing against the resolution and I think it helps shift the debate more fairly in my direction. I don't have to make speculations on "what might" end up happening.
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Most people outside the US are only exposed to our government and the affluent dumbshits in bermuda shorts who go to their countries and act superior and if you're talking about US people then there's a chance the world's opinion is based upon these two factors - a bull-headed government and well to do travelers that think they're the cats pyjamas. Who wouldn't get a bad opinion of American people from that? I actually recall talking to one person from another country who genuinely thought that everyone in america had a big house with a white picket fence and an american flag in the front yard.

<hr></blockquote>
When I was in England somebody told me the exact same thing. I'm not sure what's necessarily wrong with that. What do you think of my significant changes to the proposition's wording?

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Old 09-17-2004, 09:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> When I was in England somebody told me the exact same thing.
> I'm not sure what's necessarily wrong with that. What do you
> think of my significant changes to the proposition's
> wording?

I guess it depends on what part of the world you're from....someone I knew had moved from Turkey, and their family was terrified for them b/c they were afraid that all Americans were gun toting psychos and that they would all be murdered just walking down the street. It seems as if any one little aspect of our society can be blown out of proportion depending on who does the telling.

But then again....we are a bit psychotic aren't we <img src=smilies/retard.gif>

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Old 09-18-2004, 02:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

Isn't there supposed to be either an "i" in front of that f or a uck after it?<img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

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Old 09-18-2004, 06:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

It seems as if any
> one little aspect of our society can be blown out of
> proportion depending on who does the telling.

In Japan it is a common stereotype that all Americans carry guns and will pull one out at the slightest provocation. Go figure.

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Old 09-18-2004, 06:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> But does the world really find Kerry so much better?

Yep.

> From my experiences online talking to people from around the
> world, the general thought is that Bush is a warmongering,
> simple-minded liar-- none of which have any real standing in
> any kind of debate.

Why not? I think it's true, you clearly think it's false, I'd say we have the basics for a debate there.

Also, although most of the attention has been focused on Bush himself, his administration are hardly loved the the world either.

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Old 09-18-2004, 06:52 AM   #18
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> Well, the debate didn't go too bad overall. In the end I
> just proved that the affirmative viewpoint ultimately
> couldn't know whether or not the world opinion would change
> for the worse.

You proved people couldn't predict the future with 100% accuracy. Whoop-de-fricking-doo.

> The advocate of the topic got a little off topic, also-- comparing
> Bush to Hilter ect. I was able to attack that once the focus was
> shifted.

"Same shit, different asshole."

I saw that in a picture once with a picture of Hitler on one side and Bush on the other. I wouldn't try to argue that Bush is the new Hitler (Hitler was a far better public speaker for a start), but I still hate the guy.

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Old 09-18-2004, 09:45 AM   #19
WhyteKnight
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> When I was in England somebody told me the exact same thing.
> I'm not sure what's necessarily wrong with that.

Wrong with the idea of it or wrong that it would be a bad thing? It certainly points to people having sort of skewed notions of the american lifestyle to be sure. Granted, we don't all suck, but it certainly seems to me that a large majority of the ones big enough to be noticed are pretty shitty examples.

> What do you think of my significant changes to the proposition's
> wording?

It tends to make a bit more sense now and is certainly more specific.


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Old 09-18-2004, 07:52 PM   #20
Danoz
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Default Re: "f President Bush is Elected...

> In Japan it is a common stereotype that all Americans carry
> guns and will pull one out at the slightest provocation. Go
> figure.

I don't think that's ture on any mass level. In my experiance, the Japanese have a very high opinion of American people. In fact, in the same way we find Japanese symbols and cultures so interesting, they find American words and such equally as captivating.


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