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View Poll Results: What's your stance on ZD hosting ROMs?
Hell yeah! That would be kickass. 6 16.22%
It'd be nice. If not, then that's okay. 9 24.32%
I don't give a damn either way. 4 10.81%
I wouldn't like it. If so, then that's okay. 2 5.41%
Screw that! ZD isn't a place for ROMs! 16 43.24%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-17-2008, 04:07 PM   #41
Cornellius
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The thing is that, roms are legal for those who owns the real cartridge. My copy of Zelda - A link to the past broke (can't save my game anymore, battery is messed up), so emulating it is the only way I'm able to play it. The problem is that nobody respect that rule.

It's like mp3s, I download a lot, but when I see that I'm listening to the same album for about 2 week, I say to myself: Hey, I like that album/band a lot !, and I buy the CD/songs.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornellius View Post
The thing is that, roms are legal for those who owns the real cartridge. My copy of Zelda - A link to the past broke (can't save my game anymore, battery is messed up), so emulating it is the only way I'm able to play it. The problem is that nobody respect that rule.
Simply because there's no way they can actually verify if you own the actual cartridge or not. Unless they (police, or who ever) pay you a visit, but that just costs too much for them old games. It's more lucrative to go after the ones sharing Wii/DS/PS3/PSP/XBox360 games.

Over at CoolROM we received some complaint from www.theesa.com once that we had ESA protected ROMs up for download. They never mentioned any of the other ROMs, just the protected IPs. We took those down and that was it, the ESA never bothered us again.

So yes, if you stick to the "rules" you can host ROMs just fine. Once you got protected IPs (Super Mario Bros. for instance) up for download you can expect the ESA knocking on your door sooner or later.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:39 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornellius View Post
The thing is that, roms are legal for those who owns the real cartridge. My copy of Zelda - A link to the past broke (can't save my game anymore, battery is messed up), so emulating it is the only way I'm able to play it. The problem is that nobody respect that rule.
ROMs are legal for -you- to make if you have the means of dumping a backup. It is, according to the companies that have enough money to succeed at suing your butt, illegal to provide ROMs for all-and-sundry to download, especially if said company is currently distributing any form of the original game (such as through the Virtual Console). Also, if there is -any- encryption on the game cartridge/CD/what have you, the DMCA makes it ILLEGAL to bypass that encryption even if it's a Caesar cipher. By any method. It's illegal to record a DVD with a camcorder pointed at your TV screen because the DVD is encrypted.

I play ROMs, but I have no illusions about the legality of such. Hell, I started playing Zelda: LttP on the Wii via emulator recently, for exactly the same reason you gave, but I know it's not legal since I can purchase it for Virtual Console. The fact that I own the cartridge means exactly zilch; my cartridge is WELL past warranty. It broke, boohoo. I'm supposed to buy a replacement for it. I'm cheap and I don't want to, but I also know I'm using a less-than-legal method to get around it. I did not make that backup I am playing. Just because no one else knows that doesn't make it legal, it just makes it impossible to prove in a court of law.

And then there's the Mickey Mouse Rule. You cannot use a character that is currently under copyright. Sonic, Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, all those characters cannot be duplicated in any fashion because they are owned wholly by their corporations. Just like how you can't legally draw a picture of Mickey Mouse and use it for your own gain unless it's for educational purposes or satire, you can't distribute a ROM of a game that contains a copyrighted character. This doesn't mean you'll actually get in trouble for it; litigation is expensive and has no guaranteed return. But it's still illegal.

I personally condone the playing of ROMs on emulators. It's the best way to experience old games outside of hunting down the original cartridge and a system that still works. I cannot suggest it as a -legal- pastime though.
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:51 PM   #44
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Then again, I know some people who download roms because they can't find the game anywhere. If I was a game producer, instead of trying to find people downloading a game, let's say, Zelda - ALTTP, I'd re-release this game as a special edition or something like that. I applause Nintendo for the Virtual Console, really great idea. Plus, less electronic components (no physical cartridge), so less chance of game failures.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:52 PM   #45
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I applause Nintendo for the Virtual Console, really great idea. Plus, less electronic components (no physical cartridge), so less chance of game failures.
Sweet mercy, yes. I've probably already blown $100 on VC games.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:29 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by the_importer View Post
Just stating a contradiction, that's all.
Dude, I know the music archives existed in that time. I didn't have anything to do with them, Death Adder did. My nostalgia, what I remember doing on the website, speaking on the forums, all of that never involved piracy.

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If any companies that matter (Nintendo, SEGA, SNK, Hudson, Capcom, Konami, etc..) ever ask for Zophar to remove ROMs, you have full bragging rights (providing that there is proof of a request for removal)
I hope I never have to. Even if I'm totally against the idea of Zophar having ROMS. (Note that they're not even hosted here...)

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Unfortunately, I didn't work 10 years ago because I was already an adult when I got into emulation and it sure as hell doesn't work now [
Didn't quite grab what you meant to say with this phrase. You trying to say that you're not a ROM Kiddie but instead a "ROM Adultie" ???

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Also, Rule 45 dude !!!
Yeah, whatever rule 45 is.

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-Again, Planetemu.net has been hosting ROMs for the past 7 years and no big video game companies as EVER asked them to remove ROMs.
There are also a lot of Serial Killers over there that did kill some people 20 years ago and they're never been caught. Let's all turn into serial killers then!

Last edited by Xeon3D; 07-18-2008 at 06:38 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:39 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by the_importer View Post
ROM Kiddiez !!! I haven't heard that one in years. Unfortunately, I didn't work 10 years ago because I was already an adult when I got into emulation and it sure as hell doesn't work now
Didn't quite grab what you meant to say with this phrase. You trying to say that you're not a ROM Kiddie but instead a "ROM Adultie" ???
Doesn't matter how old you are, if you ransack forums making posts asking "HOW DO I GET THIS ROM LOL" you are a ROM Kiddie. ...which, I think, was Xeon's point.

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Originally Posted by Xeon3D View Post
Yeah, whatever rule 45 is.
Actually, I want to know what rule 45 is too...

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Originally Posted by Xeon3D View Post
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Originally Posted by the_importer View Post
-Again, Planetemu.net has been hosting ROMs for the past 7 years and no big video game companies as EVER asked them to remove ROMs.
There are also a lot of Serial Killers over there that did kill some people 20 years ago and they're never been caught. Let's all turn into serial killers then!
Whoa, whoa there Xeon! Take a deep breath... You're going into flame mode. If you're going to get snarky at him, you ought to at least be subtle about it. For the most part, this has been a fairly calm and level-headed discussion (surprisingly). Let's keep it that way, mm?

Incidentally, Soushkin gave a good rebuttal to this comment already.

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I wonder where you got that from. I'm from Holland and we can download movies and music as much as we desire. And it's actually legal too because we pay a fee on blank media.

One movie can get you 250k fine in the USA, same for music. Or three years in jail. No way we have such stupid sentences here to serve them dumbass companies.

France and England can be pretty harsh on downloading music and movies. They don't care much about them old games though, their police got better things to do than busting some ROMsites.
Again, it comes down to this... It's illegal to host commercial ROMs. There is a good chance that it is also illegal to host music rips from games, but there's no reason to suspect that anyone will come after ZD for hosting the music when it's such a fringe item. (Technically, hosting fanart on a page with ads is also illegal, but I don't see DeviantART complaining about cease-and-desist e-mails.) I, personally, have seen SEVERAL ROM sites go down due to legal activity, making hosting ROMs a high-risk activity. And I'm sorry, but pointing out one or two ROM sites that have survived so far isn't sufficient proof that it's sanctioned. The subdomain ROM hosting on ZD is plausible deniability; it will either go away or it will stay, and either way it shouldn't affect the main ZD site. Especially considering how the poll seems to be turning out.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:48 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by SparroHawc View Post
Doesn't matter how old you are, if you ransack forums making posts asking "HOW DO I GET THIS ROM LOL" you are a ROM Kiddie. ...which, I think, was Xeon's point.
Nope, I wasn't saying that he's a ROM Kiddie. Not in that way. It was more in the way of "ZD HAS TO HAVE ROMS!" since he's so supportive of it.

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Actually, I want to know what rule 45 is too...
And the mistery continues...

Google results say that Rule 45 of your civil code is related to subpoenas and that rule 45 of the USA criminal code speaks about extending time?
And I thought google helped everytime...

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Originally Posted by SparroHawc View Post
Whoa, whoa there Xeon! Take a deep breath... You're going into flame mode. If you're going to get snarky at him, you ought to at least be subtle about it. For the most part, this has been a fairly calm and level-headed discussion (surprisingly). Let's keep it that way, mm?

Incidentally, Soushkin gave a good rebuttal to this comment already.
Hey, I'm cool. Actually I'm just replying for the fun of it, as I've got nothing funnier to do ATM. I was just trying to end that point. Since he said that "if they're doing it and are not getting caught why should we do it as well", I was just trying to prove that that way of thinking was wrong. Maybe the serial killer was a bit exaggerated but it was the first thing that came to mind.

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Originally Posted by SparroHawc View Post
Again, it comes down to this... It's illegal to host commercial ROMs.
Behold, for he speaks the truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SparroHawc View Post
There is a good chance that it is also illegal to host music rips from games, but there's no reason to suspect that anyone will come after ZD for hosting the music when it's such a fringe item. (Technically, hosting fanart on a page with ads is also illegal, but I don't see DeviantART complaining about cease-and-desist e-mails.)
It's illegal. The fact that we are or we aren't getting complaints about it doesn't change the legal or not level. There are legal things or illegal things, I have yet to see a (input percentage level here)% illegal thing.

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Originally Posted by SparroHawc View Post
I, personally, have seen SEVERAL ROM sites go down due to legal activity, making hosting ROMs a high-risk activity.
Oh, so did I... good old times those were. (and no, I'm not nostalgic this time, lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SparroHawc View Post
The subdomain ROM hosting on ZD is plausible deniability; it will either go away or it will stay, and either way it shouldn't affect the main ZD site. Especially considering how the poll seems to be turning out.
I don't really think we're hosting the ROMS. I think he's getting them from some other place. At least the roms aren't hosted on roms.zophar.net, they're on a xxx.yy.zzz.aaa (IP only) server, and I can't really bother to go check where it'll lead.

Last edited by Xeon3D; 07-18-2008 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:52 AM   #49
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Couple of things:

1- PlanetEmu and other sites aren't still Online because they haven't been caught, they're still Online because game companies don't give two fucks as long as they keep it old school (I'm sure that any of those sites start hosting NDS ROMs, they'll be shut down).

2- Rule 45
Anyone on the Internet going on record stating that they are against a form of piracy are pirates themselves.

If you're on the Internet and know about piracy, odds are that you do it in some way, shape or form such has illegal: Music, Movies, TV Shows, Anime, Softwares, PC Games, Console Games, ROMs, Operating Systems, etc...

These people could be defined as hypocrites for judging people on doing something that they do themselves. The only explanation of this behavior would be fear of getting caught or fear of judgment.


-Nintendo_Fanguy0007: Downloading Wii games is a crime, you shouldn't be doing this!!! They'll catch you and throw your ass in jail......

-Common_Sense_Guy8080: Rule 45 man!!! You're probably typing this on your PC with a cracked copy of Windows XP, listening to music downloaded via Lime Wire and watching bootlegged movies on your TV that you got via Bitorrent.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:09 PM   #50
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Ahh, clarification! Thanks for defining the rule. (But why 45?)

It's getting a little off the topic, though - the question isn't whether or not Xeon3D has illegal roms, but whether or not Zophar's Domain should host illegal material.

I'm viewing it in my previous comment as a question of risk. ROMs themselves are high-risk; music rips are low-risk. They aren't no-risk, I will admit, and if they disappear I wouldn't cry about it. I'd miss them, but I wouldn't be heartbroken. The only legality issue in regards to the music isn't 'can we legally host these files?' because as Xeon pointed out, the definitive answer is no, it isn't legal. Instead, the question is 'will anyone get upset at us for hosting these files?' So far the answer seems to be no, but there is always the possibility this will change, and it isn't the sort of thing the ZD administrators should fight for as it isn't the main focus of the site.
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