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Old 11-20-2008, 01:59 PM   #21
The 9th Sage
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What I don't get is why people feel they are entitled to a backup despite this. It's just not how property works.
I bought it, I feel I should be able to do as I please with it. Now, if I was distributing it, or whatever, then that would be bad. But for my own personal use? I don't really feel so bad, because I did indeed buy the game. It isn't as though it's hurting the game companies in my case.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:23 PM   #22
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It isn't as though it's hurting the game companies in my case.
Well, by the "potential lost sale" argument it really is. If you can make a backup copy then you don't have to buy a replacement disc/cart, and they lose that potential sale. I was expecting this to come from the shoe argument as well.

Last edited by hcs; 11-20-2008 at 06:25 PM. Reason: DS doesn't use discs
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:56 AM   #23
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You seriously think kid's toys are meant to last forever? My Transformers and Voltron toys were made out of metal and my brother and I were still able to break them. Toys break, that's just the simple facts.
Yes they do, but if a parent had the opportunity to make a back-up of expensive toys they would.

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I don't buy this "not a durable medium" stuff, either. CDs are way more durable than vinyl records, but you still see plenty of vinyl records around. My dad didn't need to "back up" his Black Sabbath LPs. He just (surprise) took care of them like you're supposed to and they still play today.
The fact is that CD:s, as opposed to LP's, won't be able to keep what's on them forever. That's even if you never use them! And when we're on the LP subject, use them enough and the recording will deteriorate.


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Fire? Really? Keep your DVDs in a fire-safe box with all your important documents, then.
No way. That's what I've been saying. It shouldn't be up to the customer to pay alot of money to insure that what he has bought doesn't get lost. That's an unfair demand. I pay enough to the game companies. I shouldn't have to spend even more to make sure I don't lose it.

Bottom line: I shouldn't pay for the fears of the game companies. If they are afraid of piracy - *they* should be the one's paying for it. It is *their* problem - not mine.

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Also, don't forget, when you buy software, you aren't buying the software. You are buying a license to use that software under their terms.
I know. (Even though most people don't view it that way). That's really one of the things that's very wrong about this. The companies are in a position of power, and they're abusing this power by making unfair and ridiculous terms.

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Vote with your wallet.
That's just plain arrogant. Not everyone can "vote" with their wallet. That might be a possibility if the companies was playing fair - right now they don't.

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What I don't get is why people feel they are entitled to a backup despite this.
Because we´re talking about peoples hard earned money here. People invest money in something and they should really be able to protect that investment. All this comes down to piracy and perhaps part greed. But none of that should in all fairness be something that the customers should have to pay. it's as simple as that. And I don't care how many analogies you bring up because we're not talking about shoes, or some other stupid thing.
As someone else pointed out - if there was a possibility to make back-ups of shoes we would do that to!
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:51 AM   #24
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Yes they do, but if a parent had the opportunity to make a back-up of expensive toys they would.

I remember when I broke my first radio and I've cried because my parents didn't want to buy me another one. I've learned from my mistakes.


The fact is that CD:s, as opposed to LP's, won't be able to keep what's on them forever. That's even if you never use them! And when we're on the LP subject, use them enough and the recording will deteriorate.

The CDs and Vinyls that I've bought or burned all works fine. Even those that I've made a long time ago. You have to handle them carefully.


No way. That's what I've been saying. It shouldn't be up to the customer to pay alot of money to insure that what he has bought doesn't get lost. That's an unfair demand. I pay enough to the game companies. I shouldn't have to spend even more to make sure I don't lose it.

Yes, but it's also to the customer to use his common sense. For example, don't put your fingers under the CD. You can't blame the company for everything. It's like the story where an old women wanted to clean her cat. When she wanted to dry her can, she put it in her microwave. Of course the cat died, and the women went against the company of her microwave because it was not written that it was dangerous to put living things in a microwave. Guess what ? She won ! What the fuck. Most people don't read the manuals or anything. They want to play with their toys as soon as possible. People should learn how to manipule or hold their toys. I've seen plenty of people hitting their computers to make it work "faster",slam their car doors way too hard, listening to music too loud for the capabilities of their headphones, etc. The most flagrant examples are hand tools. People using a slot screwdriver as a pry bar, and being angry after because the screwdriver broke. I'm not saying that it's your case, but there's a lot of people using an object the way it should be. Not always, but very often, the customer is wrong. It's not always the companies fault.

Also, you can't blame the company because you lost your toy. It's your fault if you lost it, and you're the only one's responsible for that. It's up to you not to lose you goods. If you lose them, too bad.

As for the fire thing, yeah, plastic melts under fire, and it's the CD maker's fault if it does. Is that what you are saying ? What the hell can they do to correct that anyway ? Every good have their physical limits. Also, the fire was in your house. It's your problem, not their.


Bottom line: I shouldn't pay for the fears of the game companies. If they are afraid of piracy - *they* should be the one's paying for it. It is *their* problem - not mine.

You're not paying for the CD, but the game licence, or for the right to play the game. How do you think that, for example, Blizzard emplyees get paid ? It's from the money of the games they've sold that their salaries comes from. It's understandable for someone wanting to get paid for something he needed 2 or 3 years to complete.



I know. (Even though most people don't view it that way). That's really one of the things that's very wrong about this. The companies are in a position of power, and they're abusing this power by making unfair and ridiculous terms.

The battery of my Sansa died. I called Sansa and they said, "sure, we'll send you another one" It's not that hard. Not all the companies are jackass.



That's just plain arrogant. Not everyone can "vote" with their wallet. That might be a possibility if the companies was playing fair - right now they don't.

Mmm, I don't see what you mean here.


Because we´re talking about peoples hard earned money here. People invest money in something and they should really be able to protect that investment. All this comes down to piracy and perhaps part greed. But none of that should in all fairness be something that the customers should have to pay. it's as simple as that. And I don't care how many analogies you bring up because we're not talking about shoes, or some other stupid thing.
As someone else pointed out - if there was a possibility to make back-ups of shoes we would do that to!


If money is an issue, it's up to you to buy essential things first. Talking about shoes, I bought a pair for 30 $ because I needed running shoes for 3 to 4 months. I bought at that price because I don't need them for long, and I know that they won't last long.
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Last edited by Cornellius; 11-21-2008 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:20 PM   #25
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Well, by the "potential lost sale" argument it really is. If you can make a backup copy then you don't have to buy a replacement disc/cart, and they lose that potential sale. I was expecting this to come from the shoe argument as well.
Yes, I suppose, but that number is probably pretty low. This stuff is easy on the DS, but it isn't like dumping a ROM of your cart as a backup is an option for everyone.

As for the license argument, I dont' care what they say...I don't really buy that. I'm paying good money for this game, I'll do what I want to do with it. It especially irks me because I could simply pirate this game in the first place, but I don't. 99% of the games I have for DS and Wii (for which I have a flash cart and a modchip respectively) are store bought. Have a little respect for the customers of your product.

*edit*
Oh, and in case you are wondering, I got the modchip mostly for imports (of which there was no other way to play them at the time) and the ability to make multi-disc DVDs of my Gamecube games...I have like discs with dumped copies of my store bought 'Cube games on them (playable on my Wii), like 4 games to a disc. Most of the hard copies of them are up in my closet to save space. Same with my DS games actually, it's an excellent space saver.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:40 AM   #26
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It's like the story where an old women wanted to clean her cat. When she wanted to dry her can, she put it in her microwave. Of course the cat died, and the women went against the company of her microwave because it was not written that it was dangerous to put living things in a microwave. Guess what ? She won ! What the fuck.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp

Utterly useless trivia tidbit: The above story (and a subsequent refutation) played a role in an episode of an anime series about bread baking.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:01 AM   #27
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That doesn't make any sense. You enter into a EULA voluntarily (hence the "I Agree" button/checkbox). If you disagree with it, don't buy or use the product.
Funny guy. How do you disagree with something you can't disagree with before you bought the product??

There's no boxes to check or uncheck until you are installing, which means you have spend your money already.
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:16 PM   #28
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Funny guy. How do you disagree with something you can't disagree with before you bought the product??

There's no boxes to check or uncheck until you are installing, which means you have spend your money already.
Ah, finally, the obvious flaw in my argument. The only response that I have is that many big-name game companies display their EULAs on their websites. What you do if they don't post it or if you don't have internet access, I dunno.
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Old 11-25-2008, 12:14 AM   #29
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Ah, finally, the obvious flaw in my argument. The only response that I have is that many big-name game companies display their EULAs on their websites. What you do if they don't post it or if you don't have internet access, I dunno.
That's exactly why those EULAs don't mean much in my country. I don't know about America, I think companies there are forcing people to buy as much of the same as possible (no copying for own use allowed), in my country everyone who bought an original has the right to make, or download, a copy for personal use.

So i'm downloading copies of just about everything I've got, especially games because I don't like their anti piracy measurements. Measurements that are useless to begin with because it has never stopped any pirate to "steal" it anyway. It's only bothering the people who actually buy the games instead of downloading them.

Spore or Bioshock with limited installs, wtf?? I just spend 50 Euro on those games and now you are telling me I can only install it a few times, while the "pirated" version works fine, forever??

For me that's the main reason to download as soon as I bought the product.
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:53 AM   #30
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For me that's the main reason to download as soon as I bought the product.
That's saddest part to me...that occasionally if you want a version of a game that you know will ALWAYS work, you have to crack it.
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