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Old 11-16-2008, 11:36 AM   #11
WhoaMan
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you could always get bored and modify the EULA's before clicking "I Agree". I like adding "without predjudice UCC 1-308". just remember, you can modify contracts before you sign them or agree to them ^_^


UCC 1-308 gets me out of alot of car tickets, my car is not insured, titled, or registered... and i have plates from a different car on it
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Old 11-16-2008, 05:21 PM   #12
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What if, more realistically, I just click the button that looks most like "OK" to get on with it?
I put to you that the fact that the software has registered my acceptance does not constitute signing a contract, that it is a step in installing software as arbitrary and non-legally-binding as having to enter A:\I_SELL_MY_SOUL_TO_BRODERBUND_OH_AND_SETUP.EXE
I would direct you to ProCD v Zeidenberg. (If you don't like Wikipedia, check the references links at the bottom).
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:49 PM   #13
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I would direct you to ProCD v Zeidenberg.
Kinda takes the wind out of my rant, yeah. But, um, it's, like, bad and stuff.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:06 AM   #14
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But that isn't the case at all with something as frivolous as PC games.
Why? Can you clarify on that?

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I'm assuming you mean you can't make backups. Is it so hard not to scratch, break, or lose a DVD? Are you going to spend quite a lot of money for it and then not take care of it?
Maybe not hard, but all too much possible. People are people and games are often made for kids and kids are not as careful. This is a fact and has been since the beginning of time. I don't think that will change anytime soon. CD/DVD is not considered to be a durable medium - even by the manufacturers themselves. And using the argument "take care of your DVD and it will work for years to come" doesn't make it right to prevent people from making backups. That's really a lousy statement that doesn't consider other people.

Anyway, it's really beside the point. Even if the game comes in a cartridge I should be able to protect the game sufficiently. Anything can break, get caught in a house fire etc. I pay alot of money to the game company for their product, what I do with it in private really shouldn't be any of their business!
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:18 PM   #15
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Why? Can you clarify on that?
While the game company is in a position of power (since the contract is non-negotiable), it isn't something necessary to your life. This isn't a job contract. This isn't insurance. This is just a game. If the contract is unfair, refuse it and don't play the game.

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Maybe not hard, but all too much possible. People are people and games are often made for kids and kids are not as careful. This is a fact and has been since the beginning of time. I don't think that will change anytime soon. CD/DVD is not considered to be a durable medium - even by the manufacturers themselves.
You seriously think kid's toys are meant to last forever? My Transformers and Voltron toys were made out of metal and my brother and I were still able to break them. Toys break, that's just the simple facts.

I don't buy this "not a durable medium" stuff, either. CDs are way more durable than vinyl records, but you still see plenty of vinyl records around. My dad didn't need to "back up" his Black Sabbath LPs. He just (surprise) took care of them like you're supposed to and they still play today.

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Anyway, it's really beside the point. Even if the game comes in a cartridge I should be able to protect the game sufficiently. Anything can break, get caught in a house fire etc. I pay alot of money to the game company for their product, what I do with it in private really shouldn't be any of their business!
Fire? Really? Keep your DVDs in a fire-safe box with all your important documents, then. Really worried about it? Guess what, you can insure just about anything. Take out a policy on your games collection. Why should games be any different from the rest of your personal property?

Company's don't allow you to make backups because company's aren't stupid. Nine times out of ten, that "backup" copy is a copy for your friend. Also, don't forget, when you buy software, you aren't buying the software. You are buying a license to use that software under their terms. Sometimes those terms say you can't backup the software -- but sometimes you can. This is especially true with services like Steam where you can download the game as many times as you need to.

If you're in favor of making backups, buy games from companies that allow you to make backups. Vote with your wallet.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:08 PM   #16
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Fire? Really? Keep your DVDs in a fire-safe box with all your important documents, then. Really worried about it? Guess what, you can insure just about anything. Take out a policy on your games collection. Why should games be any different from the rest of your personal property?
I had a few DS games stolen from me once (and actually, the Nintendo DS)...only reason I can still play them is that I have a flashcart and had previously dumped out ROMs of said games. I have the boxes, instructions, just no cartridge. I have not distributed them to anyone, either. Just because you think every single person who is in favor of personal backups would do so, it doesn't mean they would. There are those who would, of course, but I'm not one of them.
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:26 AM   #17
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I had a few DS games stolen from me once (and actually, the Nintendo DS)...only reason I can still play them is that I have a flashcart and had previously dumped out ROMs of said games. I have the boxes, instructions, just no cartridge. I have not distributed them to anyone, either. Just because you think every single person who is in favor of personal backups would do so, it doesn't mean they would. There are those who would, of course, but I'm not one of them.
I know some people are making legitimate backups (I said "nine times out of ten", although that one out of ten is still usually not legal). My overall point is that, in most cases, you are not entitled to a backup. You're buying a license, not a game. If the license doesn't allow you to make copies and doesn't offer you the chance to somehow download a new copy, then you're screwed if your media somehow gets damaged.

What I don't get is why people feel they are entitled to a backup despite this. It's just not how property works. If you buy a pair of shoes, do you complain about not being able to get a free "backup" pair of shoes? I would hope not. If you want a backup pair, you need to buy them. Why are games different?
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:50 AM   #18
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What I don't get is why people feel they are entitled to a backup despite this. It's just not how property works. If you buy a pair of shoes, do you complain about not being able to get a free "backup" pair of shoes? I would hope not. If you want a backup pair, you need to buy them. Why are games different?
Not how property works, no, but certainly how information works. If you could make a free backup pair of shoes, wouldn't you?
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:54 AM   #19
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Not how property works, no, but certainly how information works. If you could make a free backup pair of shoes, wouldn't you?
You can do this. All you need to do is buy "shoe insurance"

First of all, you find a guy who works at the shoe factory, and get him to install tiny GPS receivers on the model of shoe you want.

Then, you buy "shoe insurance" from a local street gang.

Now, what you do is have a device where if you press a button, it causes the gang bangers to get a text message requiring them to use their GPS trackers to mug someone and steal that pair of shoes, and deliver them to your house.

So in that respect, the device that sends the text message is like a shoe backup device.
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:49 AM   #20
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Wow, the analogy started off contrived, but you really went for the gold!

Last edited by hcs; 11-19-2008 at 02:50 AM. Reason: replace stupid with contrived
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