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Old 03-02-2006, 08:10 PM   #11
Crazy_MYKL
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

You can't run PPC binaries on x86 without an emulation layer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_%28software%29Wikipedia classifies it as an emulator as well. </a>
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Old 03-02-2006, 08:37 PM   #12
Disch
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

> You can't run PPC binaries on x86 without an emulation
> layer. Wikipedia classifies it as an emulator as well.

I never understood that about WINE either. I mean Wine sounds like a clear-cut emulator to me, yet WINE="Wine is not an emulator".

While you may not be emulating the assembly, you're still somewhat emulating a portion of Windows (Message system, GDI). One system imitating another so foreign programs can be run on it -- sounds like the very definition of an emulator to me.

Anyone care to clarify the difference between Wine (and/or Rosetta) and emulators that lets these people make the distinction? Because I sure don't see it.
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Old 03-02-2006, 11:28 PM   #13
MonsieurSirhan
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

In principle, aren't you basically doing with wine the same that windows does ( translating api calls to machine code)?

If that is still considered as an emulator, then I suppose you could say windows is "emulating" win32 api calls.


Then again, whats considered an emulator?
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Old 03-03-2006, 01:50 AM   #14
Disch
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

> In principle, aren't you basically doing with wine the same
> that windows does ( translating api calls to machine code)?

The Windows API doesn't exist on a Linux machine. The drawing, message queue, and various other aspects of window creation/management on Windows is done <u>by Windows</u>. When running Wine -- I'd assume it would have to catch WinAPI calls and "translate" them into calls on the native API which do the same (or a similar) job. And unless Linux has a message queue system which is 100% identical to Windows' (which I wouldn't believe for a second)... then Wine must emulate Windows' message queue system -- and feed Windows messages to the program under the right circumstances.

> If that is still considered as an emulator, then I suppose
> you could say windows is "emulating" win32 api calls.

The difference here is that Windows is running the .exe as if it were a native program (which it is). But Wine must trick the .exe into thinking it's running on Windows by mimicing the various aspects of Windows. It has to convert it from a Windows executable to something that will run on Linux at runtime (ie: it has to [at least partially] emulate Windows).

Just like an NES emulator tricks a ROM into thinking it's running on a NES when it's not.

I just fail to see what emulators and Wine do differently. It's the exact same concept.



The only distinction I can think of is that conventional emulators emulate hardware and not software -- whereas Wine would be emulating software, but not hardware. But wouldn't that just make it a software emulator?
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Old 03-03-2006, 06:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

>WINE="Wine is not an emulator".

and LAME is "Lame Ain't an MP3 Encoder", so what?
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Old 03-03-2006, 06:29 PM   #16
Disch
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

> and LAME is "Lame Ain't an MP3 Encoder", so what?

hahaha is that really what it stands for? I never knew that <img src=smilies/laff.gif>
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Old 03-03-2006, 07:53 PM   #17
Dan
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

WINE isn't an emulator really. It's an implementation of the Win32 API on Linux, plus it adds support for the PE format to linux.

Implementing APIs and file formats, isn't really emulation.
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:22 PM   #18
Disch
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

> WINE isn't an emulator really. It's an implementation of the
> Win32 API on Linux,

Then FCEU isn't really an emulator. It's just an implimentation of the NES hardware on Windows.

But I guess that's the distinction I mentioned earlier. Is simulating software emulation? Or is it only emulation if you're simulating hardware?

When I think "emulation" I think the process of converting I/O between the native system format and the format for the emulated system. Along with mimicing other required behaviors of the target system via an abstracted layer on the native system... all at runtime so a program can be executed in an environment other than for what it was originally designed.

Wine does all that. Wine employs the exact same concepts as any conventional emulator. The only difference is it's simulating software and not hardware. But the process and function is exactly the same.
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Old 03-03-2006, 11:34 PM   #19
JadussD
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

> But I guess that's the distinction I mentioned earlier. Is
> simulating software emulation? Or is it only emulation if
> you're simulating hardware?

Why do people always argue about semantics?

It depends on what your definition of an emulator is. If you mean literally, it emulates windows, yes. The generally held definition of an emulator is something that simulates hardware via software though. Although I understand that there are "hardware/software" emulators that plug into a socket and emulate a processor that isn't developed yet, so that people can develop (slow) software, until they get the real thing.

Edit: Fixed a fucking retarded grammatical/sentence structure error.
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:56 AM   #20
Disch
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Default Re: New Mac Mini with Intel Core Duo (OMFG)

> Why do people always argue about semantics?

At least I don't argue semantics through my program names. [img]/wwwthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
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