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Old 03-16-2008, 10:47 PM   #1
shawn
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Default nafta gatt the economy and jobs

I'ld like to open a discussion on a touchy subject in politics today, specifically NAFTA and GATT.

You never hear Bush, Clinton, or Obama talk about how these treaties have to go. These 2 trade treaties alone have virtually wiped out american manufaturing jobs in the few years they've been around. You see Bush saying how tax refunds are going to turn around the economy, and Hillary and Obama are all for that. Could it be because all these american manufacturers that moved into Mexico and China are making a shitload of money having people in those countries produce products at wages a 12 year old here would turn their nose up at. Probably. Those same companies are paying Bush and others through campaign contributions millions and millions also from those profits including companies that sell these goods.

Sure it's great to get stuff for rediculously low prices but what happens when so many people are out of work or are in jobs that hardly pay the rent can't even buy this stuff anymore. I sometimes think I'm the only one that can see the big picture here of our country going bankrupt very quickly so some billionaires can make another billion but our government has to do something now. Between rediculously bad trade treaties and millions of illegal aliens stealing jobs from legal americans it's like the government is trying to do this on purpose.

I've been stewing about this a long time and I'ld like to hear some other opinions on this.

BTW, I'm back and it feels good. <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>
<P ID="signature">Get off your ass and do it because it isn't going to happen on it's own no matter how much you wish it would.</P>
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: nafta gatt the economy and jobs

Yeah, I'm really worried about the economy here. Value producers are being paid dick while the leeches at the top are getting fatter and fatter. The dollar's tanking because the gov's printing bushels of money and handing it to exploiters rather than value producers.

And by exploiters, I mean everyone trying to make money by shuffling dollars around or holding property instead of creating value. (read: stock & real estate markets, loans and banking) More and more people are trying to jump on the "do nothing useful and get rich bandwagon" while the group of hardworking naives willing to be exploited is shrinking. In short, everyone wants to sit on their ass and rent apartments for $250,000 a year while the rest of the country serves them their coffee, builds their cars, paves their roads, delivers their papers, refinishes their floors and collects their garbage all preferably for $7.25 an hour.

Wow, I sound like Karl Marx. Too bad his solution is bullshit.

I think some protectionism may be a good short-term solution, but really, America has some deep-rooted problems that aren't going to be sorted out any time soon -- namely, we've raised an MTV generation that's never gone hungry enough to have a work ethic.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:21 PM   #3
Mental Midget Slayer
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Post Enafta of Free Trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by icenine0 View Post
Yeah, I'm really worried about the economy here. Value producers are being paid dick while the leeches at the top are getting fatter and fatter. The dollar's tanking because the gov's printing bushels of money and handing it to exploiters rather than value producers.

And by exploiters, I mean everyone trying to make money by shuffling dollars around or holding property instead of creating value. (read: stock & real estate markets, loans and banking) More and more people are trying to jump on the "do nothing useful and get rich bandwagon" while the group of hardworking naives willing to be exploited is shrinking. In short, everyone wants to sit on their ass and rent apartments for $250,000 a year while the rest of the country serves them their coffee, builds their cars, paves their roads, delivers their papers, refinishes their floors and collects their garbage all preferably for $7.25 an hour.

Wow, I sound like Karl Marx. Too bad his solution is bullshit.

I think some protectionism may be a good short-term solution, but really, America has some deep-rooted problems that aren't going to be sorted out any time soon -- namely, we've raised an MTV generation that's never gone hungry enough to have a work ethic.
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NAFTA is all for the collectives not the individuals, a problem when these collectivists supporting it have a nerve to call it capitalism; when it's breaking the Free Trade exclusive right of adopting the constitution and becoming a state.
Even a violation of states rights.
I think it will be a problem, protecting wealth creation by the individual being unabridged, as long as they find it fine for politicians to vote themselves richer. Also as collective or corporate copyright of individual creation is tolerated when copyright must be limited as an individual right of the creative individual that creates a product, art, and so on.
Also permiting Corps to own DNA as a patent, when God or Chance created it.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:42 PM   #4
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well, if you enjoy these rules, feel free to vote Democrat or Republican in November. both parties have given you the current fiasco you're now enjoying.

I'm not talking about the president, either. your vote doesn't count when it comes to him. make sure to vote-in the Democrat majority in the house and senate. it's coming in November, and you people can be played like fiddles. the Obama and Pelosi combination will be no better than Bush and Gingrich were in 2001. instead of a moral-majority totalitarian state, you're going to have a fiscally-bloated totalitarian state.

meet the new boss. same as the old boss.

D.C. v. Heller was a wonderful court case. but your owners have proven that armed cattle is still cattle; as long as you're fattened up and stupid, they could give you nuclear weapons and they'd still have nothing to fear.
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:38 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by mushroom blue View Post
well, if you enjoy these rules, feel free to vote Democrat or Republican in November. both parties have given you the current fiasco you're now enjoying.

I'm not talking about the president, either. your vote doesn't count when it comes to him. make sure to vote-in the Democrat majority in the house and senate. it's coming in November, and you people can be played like fiddles. the Obama and Pelosi combination will be no better than Bush and Gingrich were in 2001. instead of a moral-majority totalitarian state, you're going to have a fiscally-bloated totalitarian state.

meet the new boss. same as the old boss.
It's exactly this type of thinking that ensures no politician will ever give a shit what you think. You're clearly not going to vote at all, you may as well not exist to them.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:43 AM   #6
mushroom blue
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Originally Posted by Lillymon View Post
It's exactly this type of thinking that ensures no politician will ever give a shit what you think. You're clearly not going to vote at all, you may as well not exist to them.
well, don't we just jump to conclusions?

You don't understand. the people don't elect the president of the united states. the electoral college does. and in only half of the states are those electors tied to voting the way the populace does. the state senates elect the electors. this means the state senates are in charge of who votes the president.

the way the government works, is that the people vote within their state, and the federal government is governed by the states themselves. we all vote for president, but for at least half of us, the vote actually has no bearing on who actually gets into office; which is why I urge people to deal with the branch of government they're supposed to be voting for. I know BBC gives the impression that it's a direct democracy. I'm sorry to have to tell you it's false. the electoral college is swayed by the state governments. and the president is elected by the electoral college.

I am going to vote, but being I no longer live in the United States of America, I'll be filing an overseas ballot, which is counted in the federal tally, but isn't really applied to the electoral college in any way, as I no longer live in a state. so not only is my presidential vote worthless, but I don't have state, county, or local governments to vote for. my vote really doesn't count.

but I vote libertarian usually, when I don't have a full-on anarcho-capitalist running. the libs are a bit too light on the minimization of government for my liking. so I'll probably be voting Bob Barr, for whatever that's worth.

but getting to the original point, if you vote for either of the two totalitarian puppets, you'll still be voting totalitarian. though this point might be lost on someone in the UK; England is second only to China when it comes to government surveillance. you're feeling it every day, so you think it's normal.

Last edited by mushroom blue; 08-12-2008 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroom blue View Post
well, don't we just jump to conclusions?

You don't understand. the people don't elect the president of the united states. the electoral college does. and in only half of the states are those electors tied to voting the way the populace does. the state senates elect the electors. this means the state senates are in charge of who votes the president.

the way the government works, is that the people vote within their state, and the federal government is governed by the states themselves. we all vote for president, but for at least half of us, the vote actually has no bearing on who actually gets into office; which is why I urge people to deal with the branch of government they're supposed to be voting for. I know BBC gives the impression that it's a direct democracy. I'm sorry to have to tell you it's false. the electoral college is swayed by the state governments. and the president is elected by the electoral college.

I am going to vote, but being I no longer live in the United States of America, I'll be filing an overseas ballot, which is counted in the federal tally, but isn't really applied to the electoral college in any way, as I no longer live in a state. so not only is my presidential vote worthless, but I don't have state, county, or local governments to vote for. my vote really doesn't count.

but I vote libertarian usually, when I don't have a full-on anarcho-capitalist running. the libs are a bit too light on the minimization of government for my liking. so I'll probably be voting Bob Barr, for whatever that's worth.

but getting to the original point, if you vote for either of the two totalitarian puppets, you'll still be voting totalitarian. though this point might be lost on someone in the UK; England is second only to China when it comes to government surveillance. you're feeling it every day, so you think it's normal.
London has more Cameras per capital in the world.

LPUK!!!!!

Bob Barr or Charles Jay. I am a BTP guy now, yeah some practice this damnation alley economics which makes me want to say, go to the Congo if you like it. War Lords are anarchy results after all.

Lesser of the two evils is still evil was the best, but even that, there aren't even two evils to choose from and the least of evils is likely the best choice. I know I was one in several municipal elections.
Imagine what type of evil that makes the Mayors of Vancouver.

I did so much want to do the Side Show Bob acceptance laugh.

Anyway good on you for saying no to the Obama-McCain bypartisan conspiracy. They confuse people and sell them that bypartisan is the same as non-partisan, total fallacy.

It isn't lost on someone in Canada who feels that Moscow on the Hudson shopping experience when in the states. There is a Republic UK movement as well. An LP.
I like being in a party, in reminds me how great it was being independent.

Actually, since the people elect the electors to represent their choice they do have to vote the wishes. For instance if one reads the constitution it just makes them representative of a state's residential US citizenry's vote. In fact there are supposed to be non-partisan and appointed by congress to represent the will of the state's registered voters. Not appointed by Candidates and Parties as they are now. There weren't party nomination meetings for the president in the beginning either. Federalists and Rep. Democrats had members running in the general election against each other and if 50% of total electors not gained congress made the vote of the top 5 elector winners from their state caucuses with their senators (then appointed and still should be appointed by state congressional bodies). VP to break the tie. It is amazing how many laws they break if you read that thing. Kucinich walks around with it breaking those laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillymon View Post
It's exactly this type of thinking that ensures no politician will ever give a shit what you think. You're clearly not going to vote at all, you may as well not exist to them.
Ever heard of separation of powers? The fact that the President is treated like a caucus member is a crime. Is it his fault they hanged the Libertarians, Greens, Independents, BTPs and so on to "Recycle Bin" in the new e-ballot boxes?

SZabadság!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroom blue View Post
well, if you enjoy these rules, feel free to vote Democrat or Republican in November. both parties have given you the current fiasco you're now enjoying.

I'm not talking about the president, either. your vote doesn't count when it comes to him. make sure to vote-in the Democrat majority in the house and senate. it's coming in November, and you people can be played like fiddles. the Obama and Pelosi combination will be no better than Bush and Gingrich were in 2001. instead of a moral-majority totalitarian state, you're going to have a fiscally-bloated totalitarian state.

meet the new boss. same as the old boss.

D.C. v. Heller was a wonderful court case. but your owners have proven that armed cattle is still cattle; as long as you're fattened up and stupid, they could give you nuclear weapons and they'd still have nothing to fear.
We need more gridlock or what do they call it, real opposition.

SZabadság!

Last edited by Reaper man; 06-14-2010 at 08:49 PM. Reason: merging retard posts
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