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Old 08-13-2004, 02:35 PM   #21
IceWolf20
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> It isn't a religious reasoning, but an attempt to protect us from both radical Judges who find themselves above the law, and the
> abolishing of traditional marriage. Frankly, we just want those desiring homosexual marriage to go about getting it the right way--
> and hopefully, to find a common ground involving a fair civil partnership of appropriate
> recognition and benefits.

Well, I'm glad to see that you do support at the very least a union with equal rights/benefits as marriage. But as far as "marriage" itself is concerned....I really belive that the US government, or any government, state or otherwise, should not have the right to ban marriage....hetero or homosexual (barring age/incest restrictions). Why should the government be able to prevent any adult couple of sound mind from being included into the socioeconomic structure like everyone else? It should be up to the specific denominations of religion to decide what "marriage" is. If the religious leaders of any denomination determine that marriage is to only take place between a man and a woman....so be it, that's they're perogitive and protected under religious freedom. Religion is not a business, and yes, they can discriminate people under the 1st Ammendment. But if a religious organization decides that its ok for a homosexual couple to get married, they what's the problem here? I understand that you find homosexuality morally reprehensible, but denying someone their rights over what they think is and is not moral (so long as it conforms to laws....like if you don't think murder is immoral, that doesn't mean you're being denied your rights) is pretty wrong....especially when the same right is bestowed upon everyone else in this country.

Basically what I'm saying is that it shouldn't be up to the government to restrict an institution that isn't even theirs. Religion "owns" marriage, let them decide what they can and can't do with it.

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Old 08-13-2004, 03:47 PM   #22
thegodofhellfire
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> 2. The church wants to keep whining and bitching about same sex
> being "married?" Fine, whatever, call it "civial union." (That's pretty
> much what marriage is anyway.)

Actually, no, I'm not prepared to make this concession. Where marriages already take place outside the church, it's a logical fallacy to consider the institution exclusively religious. I've never demanded that any church itself carry out such a ceremony, or even necessarily recognise one. (Given that the Bible is such an anti-homosexual document, I can't really see why any homosexual couple would want the church to be involved in the first place.) But the church has absolutely no business interfering with ceremonies that take place entirely outwith its auspices, whether or not they involve homosexuals.

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:20 PM   #23
Kuikorosu
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> Webster's revised only mentions "man and woman" one time in
> their definition. The Oxford English Dictionary, the
> definitive authority on the English language, never did
> specify marriage as being between a man and a woman.

Actually, he referenced the term traditional marriage. The word "marriage" can be a bond between anything, as quoted from another dictionary:

4. marriage -- a close and intimate union; "the marriage of music and dance"; "a marriage of ideas"

No matter how you dance around the technical definition of marriage, it doesn't hold any water. Traditional marriage is between a man and a woman.

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:26 PM   #24
Lillymon
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> (Given that the Bible is such an anti-homosexual document, I
> can't really see why any homosexual couple would want the
> church to be involved in the first place.)

Actually, that's debated. The vast majority of Conservative Christians go with the King James version (sometimes going as far as saying God himself guided this translation*) and interpret it as condemning homosexuality.

However, I've found many who study the Greek and Hebrew versions to come to the conclusion that the anti-homosexual bias is partly due to biased translators and faulty interpretation.

* The most shining example of this I've seen is Jack Chick's Statement of Faith which says: "We hold that the Bible, the Holy Word of a Holy God, was not only free from error in the originals (which have been lost for centuries) but also we believe God in His Singular providential care has KEPT HIS WORD all through the ages, right down to the present day as found in the King James Version. We consider this version our final and absolute authority, above and beyond all other authorities on earth." (Emphasis added by me.)

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> and the abolishing of traditional marriage (which is, by
> definition, the union of a man and a woman). Frankly, we
> just want those desiring homosexual marriage to go about
> getting it the right way-- and hopefully, to find a common
> ground involving a fair civil partnership of appropriate
> recognition and benefits.

Sorry, to the dismay of 90% of the people on this board, I'm going to have to agree with Danoz. Marriage is between a man and a woman, and maybe I'm a shortsighted and closed minded, but I just don't feel comfortable with the concept of homosexuals getting married. I'm all for the civil-union and fair civil partnership with appropriate recognition and benefits deal, but marriage should be kept between a man and a woman.

I don't hate gay people! Honestly! (Braces to dodge rotten vegetables)

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:33 PM   #26
Lillymon
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> I'm all for the civil-union and fair civil partnership with appropriate
> recognition and benefits deal, but marriage should be kept
> between a man and a woman.

OK, but aside from the name ("A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.") what would actually be the difference between this and an actual marriage? If the answer is nothing, then I guess we have nothing to debate about.

> I don't hate gay people! Honestly! (Braces to dodge rotten
> vegetables)

I hope you don't mean that in a 'Hate the sin, love the sinner' way...

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> However, I've found many who study the Greek and Hebrew
> versions to come to the conclusion that the anti-homosexual
> bias is partly due to biased translators and faulty
> interpretation.

Just out of curiosity, where did you find this information?

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:46 PM   #28
Lillymon
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> Just out of curiosity, where did you find this information?

A regular poster on the MisterPoll forums and others that I can't actually remember right now.

What? I'm sure I'm right about this, I just can't be bothered to try and bolster this argument when I'm also sure it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

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Old 08-13-2004, 04:55 PM   #29
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> What? I'm sure I'm right about this, I just can't be
> bothered to try and bolster this argument when I'm also sure
> it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Touchy touchy. I was just genuinely curious as to where you got the information, not claiming you made it up or anything.

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Old 08-13-2004, 05:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Question for Christians who Oppose Gay Marriage

> Touchy touchy. I was just genuinely curious as to where you
> got the information, not claiming you made it up or
> anything.

I wasn't talking to you. I was anticipating responses from various other people.

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