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Old 10-21-2008, 01:21 AM   #11
Ugly Joe
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Wow, never have I been so glad that someone forgot to register to vote.
Lawl.

I don't think Obama is a bad guy and I don't think he'd make a bad president. However, I would never vote for him.

I call it the Apple conundrum.

Apple makes excellent (although overpriced) products. However, the vocal part of their userbase seems to be mostly pretentious toolbags -- many of whom have no idea how to use a computer for anything other than Facebook -- who will belittle you for using a PC. Since that fanbase seems so tied into the "Apple experience", it's a huuuuge detriment to me. I don't want to be associated with those kinds of users and, because of that, I won't be buying an Apple product anytime soon.

To me, the vocal Obama supporters that I come across draw a shocking parallel to the Apple userbase mentioned above. They're backing an excellent candidate, but they're so obnoxious that I don't want to have anything to do with them or what they're supporting.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:19 PM   #12
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That's a reason to not watch South Park (also, it's really ugly). I must say it comes across as rather silly and petty in regards to to voting against somebody in an election for our most powerful public office.
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:25 AM   #13
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Is it petty? The way I see it, a candidate represents their voters. The candidate's message resonates with their voters. If Obama is elected, he's acting as a mouthpiece for those voters. If I don't like those voters, why would I want to give them a louder voice?
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Old 10-22-2008, 05:23 AM   #14
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Wow, never have I been so glad that someone forgot to register to vote.
Yeah, because it hurts Obama when someone who never intended to vote for Obama votes for a third party candidate -- one of the guys who can't 5 percent on a good year -- instead of McCain?

This binary logic is not compatible outside the plastic shell of a Texas Instruments calculator.

Voting is additive, not subtractive. You make it sound like there is a big tub of bubble gum and everyone gets to pull one out a piece until there is none left.

That's not quite right. If there is a tub, then no one can guess how much bubble gum is in it. Being a registered voter is not the same as being a voter.

A better analogy would be that each candidate is a tub, and people come up to throw in a piece. At the end of the day, the tub with the most gum wins. To say throwing your gum in one tub specifically cripples the tub next to it is stupid, and shows you are ignoring the three or more other tubs next to it.

Your view is the one that keeps the absolutely fucked two-party system in power. Who dares to vote for another party when any vote outside the two accepted ones is declared to be "throwing away your vote"?

Democracy does not function when there are only two tubs of bubble gum. It makes it impossible for other candidates to put their tubs up there on election day unless they become best friends with the boys who control the only two tubs.

That is nothing but a race to the bottom and it guarantees scandalous corruption of both parties. And once the men who control the tubs become friends with each other, then you really just have one tub. That means you have one real party hiding behind an illusion of choice -- not terribly different from here.

Voters should vote for whomever they find themselves most in agreement with, or choose not to vote at all. You should be able to stand by your choice and not regret it. If you say, "I just voted for him to keep the other guy from winning," then you kind of missed the point. Only in a system where everyone votes for whoever they most agree with will election results represent the view of the majority.

Boy oh boy! I can't wait for America to finish teaching the rest of the world about democracy!
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Last edited by D--; 10-22-2008 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:21 AM   #15
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Voters should vote for whomever they find themselves most in agreement with, or choose not to vote at all. You should be able to stand by your choice and not regret it. If you say, "I just voted for him to keep the other guy from winning," then you kind of missed the point. Only in a system where everyone votes for whoever they most agree with will election results represent the view of the majority.
It's easy to sit back and say that, but I'm actually in that situation. I'd normally vote for the Liberal Democrats, but this area has practically zero chance of actually going Lib Dem. This was a Conservative stronghold until 1997, when it switched to Labour. We're still a Labour area right now, but anything could happen at the next election.

So what now? The Conservative party conference successfully convinced me that they're exactly the sort of people I don't want in power. The Liberal Democrats are my favourite, but Labour is the realistic middle ground. Do I vote idealistically and likely throw my vote away, or vote tactically and stand a chance of making some sort of difference?

If it makes you happy, know that this decision is doing my head in.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:38 AM   #16
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How are you "throwing your vote away" by voting for the candidate you want? If nothing else, it will contribute to showing that party that people in your area care. It helps them know where they should campaign and work harder in the future.

I understand the predicament, but that's kind of not what voting is supposed to be. If you don't agree with Obama or McCain, then don't vote for them. If everyone just votes for who he supports, and the guy you hate still wins, then I'm sorry but that can only be because he reflects the spirit of the majority.

I know it's idealistic and that most people cannot understand voting this way. My point is that doing it any other way makes voting NOT WORK.

I can't tell you what to do. I, personally, do not vote because I have never seen a candidate I could feel comfortable supporting.
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Old 10-22-2008, 06:33 PM   #17
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Is it petty? The way I see it, a candidate represents their voters. The candidate's message resonates with their voters. If Obama is elected, he's acting as a mouthpiece for those voters. If I don't like those voters, why would I want to give them a louder voice?
It has been my observation that the most vocal supporters of either party, and indeed the most vocal supporters of just about any thing which can be vocally supported are nutter butter beyond belief. I wouldn't want to be associated with pretentious toolbags (though we're all here, right?) but I'd take them over angry, angry, willfully ignorant secessionists who consider an ethnic sounding middle name grounds for deportation (or worse) if I absolutely had to take one. I don't have to go far out of my way at all to see "Hussein" placed between "Obama" and "Barack" used as some attempt at making a point which really does not exist.
If there is not, in truth, a whole lot of difference between the two candidates in terms of what they'd actually do if elected, definitely I wish more McCain supporters had motives like yours. I'd rather want to punch someone than be afraid that person will punch me first.

Ehhh, although you also mentioned "or an independent," and that's sort of fair, I suppose.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:34 PM   #18
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Wow, never have I been so glad that someone forgot to register to vote.
LOL - Awesome. GO OBAMA
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:11 AM   #19
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I wouldn't want to be associated with pretentious toolbags (though we're all here, right?) but I'd take them over angry, angry, willfully ignorant secessionists who consider an ethnic sounding middle name grounds for deportation (or worse) if I absolutely had to take one. I don't have to go far out of my way at all to see "Hussein" placed between "Obama" and "Barack" used as some attempt at making a point which really does not exist.
Yeah, the argument can work both ways...but I have a metaphor working in my favor

I suppose with a change in environment I might agree with you. However, for the people I interact with, the TV shows that I watch, and the Internet that I so often frequent, I just see so many more obnoxious Obama supporters than I do obnoxious McCain supporters.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:18 PM   #20
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I'm for Obama, and I'm happy to say I agree 100% with Danoz and Colin Powell.

McCain is a good guy, but I really question his ability to make decisions under pressure. I mean, really, Palin?! Sure, I'd do her, but that doesn't mean I'm going to vote for her. She's like the NASCAR of politicians.
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