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-   -   emufanatics.com | What's with these guys? (http://www.zophar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1893)

RedXIII 07-17-2004 04:00 AM

emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
Who the hell are these emufanatics.com guy's and what the hell is their problem with the Cassini project?

Looks like they got a problem with it. Not only that but it looks like they got a problem with Zophar for making the emulator available to the public.

Here's a couple quotes from their fourms.

"The misinformation going over Zophar's domain is getting annoying ...
There's no way to contact the authors, and there's only one side of the story (cassini's) that is showed ..." - Runik

"zophar hasnt done its research, i very doubt they have looked here, they are going off emails users have sent, probably containing quotes from cassini team members, or they have visited the official site, seen the risky legal declaration and decided theres nothing wrong with it. " - refraction

"Amazing how they ignore everything been said but Zophar comes to the rescue, they like what they hear because most likely the guy doesn't know the full story and is just supporting them without all the facts." - vampireuk

These posts and more info can be found here:

http://www.emufanatics.com/forums/in...pic=1294&st=75

Seem's like some site called 1emulation.com is in on all this Cassini bashing too.

http://www.1emulation.com/forums/ind...showtopic=8210

WTF? Are these dudes assholes or what?



<P ID="signature">http://home.comcast.net/~owens_andy/ZD2000.jpg</P>

The 9th Sage 07-17-2004 04:56 AM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
What's their problem with The Scribe? Every article I've read that he's written was well done and as far as I can tell, not biased.

<P ID="signature">http://www.xanga.com/ZeldaDDhttp://www.angelfire.com/realm2/zdd2...nchi_Xanga.txt</a></P>

JCJones86 07-17-2004 04:56 AM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
I don't quite get it. What's the whole "controversy" over this emulator? If they're worried about legality issues, then they should have worried about that with other emulator releases, too.

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Keith 07-17-2004 06:09 AM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
First thing, as far as the comments about Zophars, those were made from people from our community and do not represent EmuFanatics the site. People are entitled to their opinions just as you are entitled to yours in your post about this.

As for the Cassini debate .. we have made our final statements here. You can believe what you want .. this is what we believe in ..

http://www.emufanatics.com/news.php?func=view&id=452

As for 1Emulation these were the people that hosted the Cassini forums and they are the site that Zophars is currently linking to for the legal arguement.

The only problem is 1Emulation.com has dropped support for Cassini. So their forums were removed and they are no longer supported there, and the link Zophars is using is no longer valid.

To be honest Zophars is the only site that I have seen that openly supports it. I have no problem with that, because it is their site to run and it is their decision to make.

Also I sent a PM regarding the Zophars download description for Cassini. It currently is a bit misleading by listing it as a new open source saturn emulator when in fact it is only a GiriGiri hack. There is no mention in the description about it being GiriGiri. Other then that, I see nothing wrong if Zophars wants to support it.

<P ID="signature">- Keith | EmuFanatics.com</P>

Fla Flash 07-17-2004 01:42 PM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
Everyone has a right to their opinion.
Your position is very well stated and understandable. We're a news site, and try to remain nuetral as one.
But it doesn't help when the only emails we get representing the other side are two lines long and written in lame 1337 speek.
We welcome opinions and viewpoints from the both sides.
~Flash~
P.S. Anyone who really does with to express their opinion please do so. We don't print letters from "anonomouys" people. If you want to make a point, be good enough to use your name. Thank you.

<P ID="signature"><img src=http://www.freewebs.com/mewscorner/mean.png>
Diary of a Vigilante III...The Homecoming..</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Fla Flash on 07/17/04 09:37 AM.</FONT></P>

Runik_Saturnin 07-18-2004 12:48 PM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
I'm Runik, the author of Saturnin, and I would like to explain some things.
The following is an email I sent to Narvick, and it's something I wanted to post here first (it has gone full circle ;) )

Hi !

I'm Runik, author of Saturnin (a saturn emu as you may have guessed :p).
As the confirmation mail to access to your boards is a bit long to show up, I would like to write my concerns about Cassini.
I read the thread about emufanatics on your forums, and there are a few things I would like to clarify.

First, I have nothing against The Scribe, he stated his position about the legality of the emulator, and i've nothing to say about that.
To be honest, I don't care much about the legality of Cassini, as it's none of my concern. This is a matter between them and Sega.
But that's not the point. The thing that really bothers me is that Cassini is just a hack of an existing (and now defunct) commercial emulator
named Girigiri.
The Cassini team is trying by all means to do people believe that Cassini is a new open source sega saturn emulator, which is totally false.
They base their claim on the fact that the coder (Snail) changed 40% of the original code of the emulator, added 3 major feature to it, and provided
the sourcecode within the package.
I'll try to explain each point on a developper point of vue, as I know quite a few things about the saturn hardware :

1. the 40% source change and the 3 major improvements :
When you read the Cassini website, it's stated that there's almost no documentation available about the saturn. Isn't it a bit paradoxal to change
40% of an emulator without any documentation ? We (other coders interested in this issue and me) asked Snail to provide a detailed list of what he
changed on the emulator. We posted our requests on different boards (including the official one) and we never got any answer.
People who tested Cassini after testing Girigiri didn't found any big differences between the two.
So I sincerely doubt about the amount of work spent on Cassini, and to me it's just a hack of another emulator, which was already really good ...

2. Sourcecode bundled with the emulator :
The sourcecode files are just big assembly files generated by an automatic binary disassembler like IDA, which is far of being something
usable by any developper. Some skilled assembly developpers (not me :p) tried to compile the files anyway with no success, and the questions
regarding this matter were still never answered. I personnaly highly doubt that any improvement besides the frontend and some minor fixes
can be done using this material ...

The original author of Girigiri (Megadeath) and Sega did a tremendous job with this emulator, to me it's an example to follow, and I really don't like
to see people claiming hard work made by others their own ... It's a question of morality and respect.
Anyway I strongly encourage you to read the whole thread at emufanatics, as there are some issues with the Cassini team which I don't talk about
here (like the game.dat file problem). The thread is located here :

[url]http://www.emufanatics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1294[/url]

Thanks for reading me :)
Best regards,
Runik


<P ID="signature"></P>

RedXIII 07-18-2004 02:57 PM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
> To be honest, I don't care much about the legality of
> Cassini, as it's none of my concern. This is a matter
> between them and Sega.
> But that's not the point.

That is most definately the point because the fourms on both emufanatics and 1emulation are filled with pages whining about copyright laws.

I mean really folks, why go on and on about it? Besides couldn't you use that time to make your own emulator run as well as GiriGiri/Cassini?

<P ID="signature">http://home.comcast.net/~owens_andy/ZD2000.jpg</P>

Runik_Saturnin 07-18-2004 03:46 PM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 

> That is most definately the point because the fourms on both
> emufanatics and 1emulation are filled with pages whining
> about copyright laws.

No, that's not the point. Some people slided the debate on the legality of Cassini, and they used it, but that wasn't me and as I already stated, I don't care about it.

> I mean really folks, why go on and on about it? Besides
> couldn't you use that time to make your own emulator run as
> well as GiriGiri/Cassini?

Making my emu as good and even better than Girigiri is one of my goals. But Cassini must be left out of it.
Did you read what I wrote ? Cassini is just a HACK of an existing emu, and it should be stated as it, not as a whole new project.
And isn't it strange that none of the emulator coders took position in favor of Cassini ? Maybe because they know what's going on ...
I know a lot of emu coders that are disgusted about the way that the Cassini team worked so far ...

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Fla Flash 07-18-2004 04:10 PM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
Thank you.
I've been getting dumb emails not giving me a clue, and you post the other side perfectly.
When the Scribe sent that letter, it was all aimed at the legality of emulators, not the settlement of the dispute between Sega and the Cassini project.
And if this is indeed an illegal ripoff of another emulator, they need, as far as I'm concerned, to be shot.
Stealing work amongst emulator creators and romhackers and translators is low. Sorry, but if you can't do it on your own, get the hell out.
I'm hoping this isn't the case. I am still looking into it.

<P ID="signature"><img src=http://www.freewebs.com/mewscorner/mean.png>
Diary of a Vigilante III...The Homecoming..</P>

Keith 07-18-2004 10:06 PM

Re: emufanatics.com | What's with these guys?
 
> That is most definately the point because the fourms on both
> emufanatics and 1emulation are filled with pages whining about copyright laws.
> I mean really folks, why go on and on about it? Besides couldn't you use that time to make your own emulator run as well as GiriGiri/Cassini?

First let me address the last comment .. As for making it as good as Cassini with our so called "wasted" time .. anyone familiar with a hex editor could make it as good as Cassini. As for making it as good as GiriGiri .. well why couldn't the Cassini team to do it from scratch? Why can't any Saturn emulator out there do it from scratch? Because GiriGiri is a damn good emulator and that has never been in question. The original authors and Sega did a wonderful job with GiriGiri and it is a shame it is being hacked the way it is without any permission what so ever. :/

-------------------------------

as for the lega statements ..

That was just one aspect of how the debate was started, and still is only one reason why it is not supported. There is many things wrong with the project and that was just one path that was used to point out the wrongs in the project.

If you would have read our Final Statements that "do" represent EmuFanatics then you would know exactly how we feel about this project as a hacked emulator and what it means to the emulation scene. I am also in agreement with Runik that it is between Sega and Cassini when it comes to the legality of this project .. but the first thing we had to do was to convince the Cassini team to take those steps in contacting Sega the right way and to keep that pressure on to do so. As you might have seen before they were just using an e-mail from Sega Tech Support as a legal arguement and we felt that was not justified. As I said it was just one part of a larger problem.

I should also point out this dabate was started on the "12th" of July when there was little known about it. It was a process of learning more about what the poject was and what is wasn't. It is now the "18th" and pretty much everything that needed to be said has been said on EmuFanatics .. the debate has pretty much dead there until there is more to debate about.

Just incase you didn't read our official statements that "do" represent EmuFanatics .. here they are again.

Hey everyone, just wanted to clear the air and make an official statement about Cassini, our goal with the debate, and our final stand regarding this project.

As we have stated many times now our goal is not to shut down Cassini, we are not out to protect Sega, and this is not a personal grudge against this emulator or team.

Our main goal is about about protecting the emulation scene, the developers, and our fellow sites from these types of projects.

Past projects have been viewed the same way. Originally GiriGiri hack was not covered by emulation sites because of legal reasons. Emurayden is not covered which is a CVGS hack. Same goes for other hacks that have come along such as ePSXiPC which was nothing more then a hacked ePSXe, and the Veritas SPU plugin which was a hack of the PSX SPU Plugin Eternal SPU. I am sure there is many more and all of these are not supported by the emulation community.

In the end it all comes down the integrity of the Emulation Scene and how sites want to be perceived. EmuFanatics and myself are connected with many emulation developers who I consider good friends who have supported our site and I feel supporting a hacked project is a slap in their face.

This is not about the use of Cassini, or any other type of emulator or material like it. We are not out to tell people what is right and what is wrong when it comes to the use of illegal material such as roms or warez. This is something the users need to decide.

The stories are getting very mixed up about our goals and agenda, which is causing more trouble and confusion then their needs to be.

Our Only goal is to either make this project legit, or remove it from the emulation scene (as in coverage and support). We are not trying to get it shut down in anyway. I am sure this project and any other GiriGiri hack that comes along will always remain in one form or another.

So please get the stories straight on what this is about. Too many people are mixing this stuff up and is causing more trouble then there needs to be. To be honest this is more for Emulation site staff then for its users. The staff of sites are the ones who control the content that is hosted on their sites, and this is where we need to control this type of content and stop it from becoming the norm.

Show some respect for what emulation stands for and for the developers and their projects that help keep this scene alive.

This is also my final say in the matter until it can be resolved. I believe we got our point across.



<P ID="signature">- Keith | EmuFanatics.com</P>


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