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-   -   OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone (http://www.zophar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6442)

MooglyGuy 11-30-2005 05:31 PM

OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140535.html

<img src=smilies/headshake.gif>

"If made law, the Family Entertainment Protection Act would be a "a prohibition against any business for selling or renting a Mature, Adults-Only, or Ratings Pending game to a person who is younger than seventeen." It would punish violators with unspecified fines, though it did not specify if the clerk who sold the game or the retailer where said clerk worked would be punished."

"It would authorize "the FTC to conduct an annual, random audit of retailers to determine how easy it is for young people to purchase Mature and Adults Only video games and report the findings to Congress.""

"As justification for the act, Clinton's office claims that "video game content is getting more and more violent and sexually explicit.""

""A majority of parents are feeling increasingly victimized by a culture of violence that makes it difficult to protect their children against influences they find to be inappropriate," read Clinton's statement." (emphasis added by me) WOW, I love logical fallacies, don't you?!

<img src=smilies/headshake.gif><img src=smilies/headshake.gif><img src=smilies/headshake.gif>

D-- 11-30-2005 06:17 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> "If made law, the Family Entertainment Protection Act would be a "a prohibition against any business for selling or renting a Mature, Adults-Only, or Ratings Pending game to a person who is younger than seventeen." It would punish violators with unspecified fines, though it did not specify if the clerk who sold the game or the retailer where said clerk worked would be punished."

Explain to me what the problem with this is. The games are given these ratings because they are not for children. They should not be played by children. A board of rich white people all agree the games are not appropriate for children.

Parents are angry that their children are obtaining these games.

Solution?

Make a law that will FORCE THE PARENTS TO ACTUALLY GO OUT AND BUY THESE GAMES FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

If the child can't buy it, asks mommy and daddy to, and mommy and daddy buy it, there is no one left to be mad at but their own yuppie ass for circumventing the very law they wanted to have created.

If something is ruled as being damaging to children, don't sell it to children. They don't sell cigarettes to children. They don't sell alcohol to children. If the game's cover says you need to be 17 or older to buy it, why the fuck would you even think of selling it to a 12-year-old?

Make their parents buy it. Then they are the irresponsible ones. It will be like when the "cool mom" buys 30 bottles of Absolut for her daughter's party, and a kid dies of alcohol poisoning. It is the parent's fault because they bought something the government says is not for kids, and then provided it for kids anyway.

Blade556 11-30-2005 06:20 PM

It's a good idea
 
Children are impressionable. It may be a video game, but it can breed violent behavior.

On the other hand, as kids get older, they smarten up. It's a fact of life people overlook. Teenage rebellion is just a simple phase of life that kids will eventually get over.

Ugly Joe 11-30-2005 06:37 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> Make a law that will FORCE THE PARENTS TO ACTUALLY GO OUT
> AND BUY THESE GAMES FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

But that's the problem. Parents already buy these games for children. I think anyone who has had any job that involved selling video games will confirm this. The blame is being incorrectly placed on the retailers and has been for way too long. They've already cleaned up their act.

MooglyGuy 11-30-2005 07:28 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
> Children are impressionable. It may be a video game, but it
> can breed violent behavior.

Proof, please.

soniczip 11-30-2005 08:07 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
Hillary Clinton just did another "Video Games make kids kill people" stand with Jack Thompson. I just can't stand this.

VIDEO GAMES DO NOT MAKE KIDS KILL PEOPLE HILLARY YOU IQ-REDUCED IMBECILE OF A POLITICIAN THAT THINKS VIDEO GAMES ARE THE SOURCE OF ALL EVIL!

It isn't kids buying these things who are the problem. It's either ignorant parents who don't care what they're getting, ignorant parents who believe that video games are a blasphemy to God, or stupid kids who decide "Oh, I think i'm going to go buy an Uzi and hijack a car, like in GTA."

Example of parent who believes video games are a blasphemy to god = My dad. Fanatical Christian who can find something that promotes sin in a G rated movie, and can do the same for a E rated game.

I think Hillary is pretty stupid. I mean, her husband cheated on her, lied about it in his autobiography, and she STILL STAYS WITH HIM. When did she sustain so much brain damage? Or... Maybe you have to pass a stupid test if you're elected to be a Senator.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by soniczip on 11/30/05 04:27 PM.</FONT></P>

D-- 11-30-2005 10:38 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> But that's the problem. Parents already buy these games for
> children. I think anyone who has had any job that involved
> selling video games will confirm this. The blame is being
> incorrectly placed on the retailers and has been for way too
> long. They've already cleaned up their act.

The industry report card for this year where they send in children to try buying the games and see if they succeed stil found 52% of the time, kids could buy MA rated games.

The onley exception was Best Buy, who carded everyone.

Cornellius 12-01-2005 12:24 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
I. Don't. Give. A. Damn.

Really, I don't see the problem.
Will this make it so hard for you to get your games ?

Cornellius 12-01-2005 12:31 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> Parents are angry that their children are obtaining these
> games.
> Solution?
> Make a law that will FORCE THE PARENTS TO ACTUALLY GO OUT >AND BUY THESE GAMES FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

Amen.

packardmelan 12-01-2005 12:42 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> But that's the problem. Parents already buy these games for
> children. I think anyone who has had any job that involved
> selling video games will confirm this. The blame is being
> incorrectly placed on the retailers and has been for way too
> long. They've already cleaned up their act.
>
And when it's required by LAW to have to be an adult to buy these things, their argument that the game companies are catering to children will be weakened.

Ugly Joe 12-01-2005 12:58 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> The industry report card for this year where they send in
> children to try buying the games and see if they succeed
> stil found 52% of the time, kids could buy MA rated games.

http://www.mediafamily.org/research/...grc_2005.shtmlThe newest</a> actually says 44% success rate. Which is still pretty bad. But 42 stores seems a bit too small segment to me.

It's also worth reading http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=11225this article</a> which has the ESRB and IEMA responses.

But the report card isn't all bad. They do recommend parents to buy the Minish Cap and We Love Katamari <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

MooglyGuy 12-01-2005 01:18 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> Really, I don't see the problem.
> Will this make it so hard for you to get your games ?

It's not a matter of whether it prevents me from getting my games or not. It's a matter of the government trying to play nanny for people when it really has no goddamn business doing so. This bill, if it is passed, makes M-rated videogames have effectively the same legality as cigarettes and alcohol, and as far as I'm concerned, that's wrong on so fucking many levels. It's not the government's goddamn business to determine whether or not someone should have an M-rated game, because it's just that, a game. It doesn't cause cirrhosis of the liver, it doesn't give you cancer. It's a fucking game, and yet the government somehow feels the need to step in and outlaw them to the point of those that do the above two things. Do you really think that the entertainment industry should become some political boondoggle for politicians to leverage for votes? <img src=smilies/headshake.gif>

puzzl 12-01-2005 01:21 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
YOU"RE NOT THINKING OF THE CHILDREN! WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

That's what I think the ol' government would reply to you.

MooglyGuy 12-01-2005 01:27 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> YOU"RE NOT THINKING OF THE CHILDREN! WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE
> THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
>
> That's what I think the ol' government would reply to you.

To which I would reply: There's no law that says R-rated movies, which are the exact MPAA equivalent of the ESRB's M-rated games, can't have kids attend. It's completely voluntary on the part of the theaters, but somehow I don't see Hilarity using them as something to be taken advantage of for nothing more than political gain (you can't honestly tell me she's doing this just because she cares about the precious children). You don't see people actively campaigning to ban them from children. Why? Because that would make R-rated movies exactly the same as X-rated movies. We already have an Adults Only videogame rating. The majority of game retailers don't stock AO-rated videogames, same as they don't stock X-rated movies. Why do we need to make M effectively be the exact same rating as AO? Why are games portrayed as digital serial-killer-makers that need to be banned from small children when movies are hardly given a second thought? I submit that seeing real human beings "getting killed" is, if anything, more effective on a child's psyche than killing some polygonal haitians.

puzzl 12-01-2005 01:41 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
>Why are games portrayed as digital serial-killer-makers
> that need to be banned from small children when movies are
> hardly given a second thought?

I put forth that the reason is that governing a country is hard, and the ones in charge would rather do this instead of their job. It's easier, I'd imagine.

Blade556 12-01-2005 02:31 AM

Re: It's a good idea
 
Pr-oo-f: noun

See History

Cornellius 12-01-2005 02:49 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
It's a game for you, not for everyone. If the parent aren't intelligent enough to watch which games their children are playing, then yes, someone have to take care of this.

Vampire hunter D 12-01-2005 03:14 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> It's a game for you, not for everyone. If the parent aren't
> intelligent enough to watch which games their children are
> playing, then yes, someone have to take care of this.
>

Yeah, but not the friggin government. You should know full well that if they do pass that law, what's to stop them from getting rid of other things? What if they start thinking "Dear lord, Christmas is an evil holiday, it should be banned" or "Other countries don't celebrate Thanksgiving, so we should get rid of it so our immagrants can live here peacefully and not have <u>our</u> culture shoved down their throats." I know it sounds ridiculous, but the fact remains, all that is highly plausible. In fact, it's already on the verge of that. In some areas you aren't allowed to say Merry Christmas, you have say "Happy Holidays", or someone might be offended.

When we stop relying on our own selves to provide for us and instead turn for hand-outs from the government, we as a society have died.

Mr. Saturn 12-01-2005 04:13 AM

Is MURDER appropriate for our children??????
 
<img src=http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000IWCY.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg>
And to think, it's for eight year olds!!!!!!!!!!!
How many people must die by blunt trauma before people realize it isn't a good idea!!!!!!!!!

Danoz 12-01-2005 04:59 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
Always complaining, eh moogle? ;) -- I have zero problem with this.

SpaceTiger 12-01-2005 07:25 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> What if they start thinking
> "Dear lord, Christmas is an evil holiday, it should be
> banned" or "Other countries don't celebrate Thanksgiving,
> so we should get rid of it so our immagrants can live here
> peacefully and not have our culture shoved down their throats."

Is this one of those "fight fallacy with fallacy" threads?

(wraith_) 12-01-2005 10:45 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> "Dear lord, Christmas is an evil holiday, it should be
> banned" or "Other countries don't celebrate Thanksgiving,
> so we should get rid of it so our immagrants can live here
> peacefully and not have our culture shoved down their
> throats."

You're right, that is ridiculous.

Also: apples & oranges.

Fla Flash 12-01-2005 10:56 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
Oh for christs sake. This whole argument is gonna end up lame, cause only one positive thing can come from that idiotic law - parents actually sit up and take notice of what video games their kids are playing.Parenting in this country has gone right into the shitter. The point is, parents expect schools to babysit their kids (as well as raise them, to a certain extent) and the laws to do the same.
Any kid who doesn't realize that the video game world and this one are two different entities altogether is either stupid or not raised knowing the difference between fantasy and reality.
I'm so sick of bashing every damned lawmaker from here to kingdom come on this one. I really don't give a rat's ass what law they pass - it's not going to stop gaming's popularity or development.
Maybe, just maybe, some parents will pay attention for a change.
That'd be a first.

(wraith_) 12-01-2005 11:04 AM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140535.html

Here's the thing.

How is this any different from the movie industry? To view mature films (R or higher), you HAVE to show ID. I'm 27 and I still get carded at the ticket counter on occasion. For really racy/violent films, somtimes I'm carded again on the way into the theater. I've seen them pull kids out of line.

Unless mom or dad are with them.

Do I believe that videogames make kids do violent things? NOt unless the kid is crazy already.

However, the bottom line is that parents have every right to decide what their children are exposed to (in the realm of media). It would be nice if we could trust the retailers to enforce it, but statistically, they do not. Although I can gaurantee they will if the FTC has the power to fine or suspend the privelege to sell M/AO games.

Everybody always yells that M/AO games shouldn't be banned because it should be the parent's responsibility to decide what their kids can handle, and I agree. A law to require retailers to comply with ratings will give parents the final responsibility. It's not punishing retailers OR game manufacturers--it actually creates less liability for them as long as they follow the rules and don't TRY to market the games to children below the age the game is rated for.

If a kid buys Doom and goes on a killing spree--with a law like this, it is no longer the retailer's fault for selling it. It is no longer the publisher's fault for making it. It is the parent's fault for thingking their kid could handle something they could not.

If you think about it logically, this law is valuable not only for concerned parents, but also for the industry.

Unless the industry really is trying to market these M-rated games to kids under 17. <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

UncleOral 12-01-2005 12:30 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Children are impressionable. It may be a video game, but it
can breed violent behavior.


<hr></blockquote>
Utter bullshit. Fantasy is fantasy is fantasy.
If your touch with reality is so feeble in the first place, it's not the game's fault you're shooting your classmates and yourself.

As for the law (which is equally dungworthy); it's the parents responsibility, not the president, not the government, not the clerks and god damnit not the video game industry.
If parents leave parental control in the hands of others they need to be kicked in the groin repeatedly until they can't bring more people like them to earth.

Blade556 12-01-2005 01:11 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
Firstly, nobody said anything about shooting up your school. Secondly, when a child of 11 sees real people, real places, and people acting normally like it was normal to steal a bike, the kid's going to think "Hey, thats cool! I'm gonna do that when I'm older!" And it gradually builds, and starts from one bad thing.

Fantasy is Fantasy, but when they play games like San Andreas where people look real, it disillusions the young mind. Do you understand yet?

Blade556 12-01-2005 01:13 PM

Re: Is MURDER appropriate for our children??????
 
You have just won the lobby for the opposition.

Man...I haven't felt so nostalgic in ages...<img src=smilies/laff.gif><img src=smilies/laff.gif><img src=smilies/laff.gif>

Dark Knight Kain 12-01-2005 01:15 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

I put forth that the reason is that governing a country is hard, and the ones in charge would rather do this instead of their job. It's easier, I'd imagine.

<hr></blockquote>

Yup, that's it... but I really have no problem with this, I don't think eight-year-old kids should be playing GTA, and if the parents are too damn lazy/stupid to do something about it someone should.

Kids do pick stuff up from these games, it's the kids who's parents are too damn lazy/stupid to educate their children about the difference between a game and real life. If I had GTA when I was eight I'd have been smart enough to know its just a game, but I doubt many of my friends would be, I doubt some of them know the difference now-a-days...

MooglyGuy 12-01-2005 02:13 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> Is this one of those "fight fallacy with fallacy" threads?

I don't know, is it? Instead of scolding us like an overbearing parent, why not hop off your high horse and throw in your two cents? After all, your ivy-league education should make you more apt to give us one of your nicely well-worded, unfallacious and magnificent arguments, shouldn't it? You know, since you're better than everyone else and all. http://www.zophar.net/wwwthreads/smilies/upeyes.gif

UncleOral 12-01-2005 03:02 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Firstly, nobody said anything about shooting up your school.


<hr></blockquote>

It's a nice example of what nimwits think happens when people play first-person-shooters too much.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Secondly, when a child of 11 sees real people, real places,
and people acting normally like it was normal to steal a
bike, the kid's going to think "Hey, thats cool! I'm gonna
do that when I'm older!" And it gradually builds, and starts
from one bad thing.


<hr></blockquote>

No, he won't, and they aren't real people nor real places, it's part of a video game. Well, he could start thinking like that if he were already inclined towards becoming a nutcase and his parents gave a rats ass about him. Then we could start arguing whether or not GTA had a huge impact on Bobby Pantsless unfortunate career-leap into hi-jacking vehicles.
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Fantasy is Fantasy, but when they play games like San
Andreas where people look real, it disillusions the young
mind.


<hr></blockquote>
What you fail to grasp is that there aren't such absolutes, and if one such game is enough to sway Bobby Pantsless that much, Bobby was already sufficiently demented in the first place that it would hardly have made a difference. He would probably have been disillusioned by the candy machine outside Walmart.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Do you understand yet?


<hr></blockquote>

I'm not the one at a loss here, junior.

hcs 12-01-2005 03:02 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
> As for the law (which is equally dungworthy); it's the
> parents responsibility, not the president, not the
> government, not the clerks and god damnit not the video game
> industry.

The argument being made is that this law *makes* it the parents' responsibility, which I'm becoming more and more in favor of. You seem to agree with this principle, too, why not make it law?
Though children could still have an older friend or relative procure the game on their behalf...

UncleOral 12-01-2005 03:20 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


The argument being made is that this law *makes* it the
parents' responsibility, which I'm becoming more and more in
favor of. You seem to agree with this principle, too, why
not make it law?
Though children could still have an older friend or relative
procure the game on their behalf...


<hr></blockquote>

Oh the law should be made, no problem. I just hate the whole scenario and that such ridiculous laws are required, there's too many parents who can't be bothered to check what their children are doing and what their allowance is spent on.
What I strongly disagree with, however, is the effect such games have on children. There is of course a limit--- 6 year olds haven't gotten a firm grasp on this reality yet so multiple worlds only makes things fuzzy. Even so, it still only means that the parents needs to pay close attention and re-establish what is appropriate and what is not, what is real and what is not.
It only becomes a problem if left alone, and even then it's quite arguable, and the blame lay with the parents. I hope no one ever told them it'd be easy.

Cornellius 12-01-2005 04:10 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> Yeah, but not the friggin government.

If crimes are commited in cities because of the games, because some idiots can't understand the difference between a game and the reality, then yes, the gov have to do something.

Blade556 12-01-2005 04:24 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
> No, he won't, and they aren't real people nor real places,
> it's part of a video game.

When it gets so realistic, it makes kids think "Hey, I can do that too". How can you be so naive about this?

> What you fail to grasp is that there aren't such absolutes,
> and if one such game is enough to sway Bobby Pantsless that
> much, Bobby was already sufficiently demented in the first
> place that it would hardly have made a difference. He would
> probably have been disillusioned by the candy machine
> outside Walmart.

Man...Are you retarded? The candy machine outside walmart isn't suggesting a way of life that seems acceptable through a video game. No kid reads the disclaimer, they just want to play the game. Then they see how Tommy from GTA 3 is ridin up and down the street on his bike and doesn't get in shit for it until a cop sees him and starts chasing him. Then, when Tommy gets caught, he "Dies" and starts over from nothing. And that gives kids a bad influence, not only towards behaviour, but towards police as well.

> I'm not the one at a loss here, junior.

You need an attitude adjustment and to lift your head out of your ass. It's not the governments fault, but when parents aren't doing anything, it's time to step in, especially when it can breed bad behaviour.

SpaceTiger 12-01-2005 04:58 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> After all, your ivy-league
> education should make you more apt to give us one of your
> nicely well-worded, unfallacious and magnificent arguments,
> shouldn't it? You know, since you're better than everyone
> else and all.

I think you're confused. It's not that I'm better than everyone else, it's that everyone else is better than you.

UncleOral 12-01-2005 06:38 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


When it gets so realistic, it makes kids think "Hey, I can
do that too". How can you be so naive about this?


<hr></blockquote>
How can you be so cliché?
I realize you are searching for an easy solution to why things happen like they do, but video games are hardly the thing to blame.
It's just not that simple.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Man...Are you retarded? The candy machine outside walmart
isn't suggesting a way of life that seems acceptable through
a video game. No kid reads the disclaimer, they just want
to play the game. Then they see how Tommy from GTA 3 is
ridin up and down the street on his bike and doesn't get in
shit for it until a cop sees him and starts chasing him.
Then, when Tommy gets caught, he "Dies" and starts over from
nothing. And that gives kids a bad influence, not only
towards behaviour, but towards police as well.


<hr></blockquote>
The candy machine with its vibrant colors could provoke a nutjob into a murdering frenzy you know, shouldn't downplay those awful deathtraps.

You really don't understand that if you let a video game influence you to the point where you base your moral values (or lack thereof) and actions upon it...that something might be wrong from the get-go?

Fucked up kid > ends up in a fight and kills someone > jail > misery.
Fucked up kid > plays violent video game > kills your bonzibuddy.
Fucked up kid > fucked up parents > rampages through the streets with sunglasses and a glock proclaiming, "I'm teh one!!1!one".
Fucked up kid > family dies > candy machine > pillages and plunders a cruise-ship.

Normal kid > superb parents > plays violent video game > wins a tekken tourney > 5-6 digit job.
Normal kid > parents who don't care > plays violent video game > writes goth emo poems and dresses in black.
Normal kid > fucked up parents > raped through the pants by Bobo Bobobo the clown > family blown up by Murdock from MacGyver > plays violent video game > starts working in telemarketing.

Until you show me an extensive psychological study that proves how normal kids will turn into murdering basketcases frothing at the cheeks and raping teddybears from playing too much God of War, I'm going to keep on proclaiming it's miniscule effects.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


You need an attitude adjustment and to lift your head out of
your ass. It's not the governments fault, but when parents
aren't doing anything, it's time to step in, especially when
it can breed bad behaviour.


<hr></blockquote>
Eh, dude, you can go fuck yourself and your aunt with that "Do you understand now?". Condescending behavior only means the gloves comes off and I don't care if you get insulted any more.
What you need to do doesn't involve anatomically impossibilities, no, you need to be beaten with a clue stick until you open your eyes and realize that it's not so hard to seperate this reality from another even for an 11-year-old.

MooglyGuy 12-01-2005 07:10 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> I think you're confused. It's not that I'm better than
> everyone else, it's that everyone else is better than you.

That's a matter of opinion. So are you going to present a well-worded, non-fallacious argument on the subject of this thread, or did you just pop in to tell me off? http://www.zophar.net/wwwthreads/smilies/laff.gif

SpaceTiger 12-01-2005 08:17 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> That's a matter of opinion. So are you going to present a
> well-worded, non-fallacious argument on the subject of this
> thread, or did you just pop in to tell me off?

I was going to ask you the same question. Take a more careful look at the username of the person I first responded to. Note that it doesn't have "Moogle" in it.

MooglyGuy 12-01-2005 08:59 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> I was going to ask you the same question. Take a more
> careful look at the username of the person I first responded
> to. Note that it doesn't have "Moogle" in it.

Yeah, but you said "fight fallacy with fallacy", so I thought you were referring to my own points as well as VHDs. Don't worry, I still love you, toots. <img src=smilies/liefde.gif>

SpaceTiger 12-01-2005 09:01 PM

Re: OMG won't someone think of the children!!!1/1!eone
 
> Yeah, but you said "fight fallacy with fallacy", so I
> thought you were referring to my own points as well as VHDs.
> Don't worry, I still love you, toots.

Psh, dream on. Give me a call when you get into Harvard. <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

Fla Flash 12-01-2005 10:04 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Normal kid > fucked up parents > raped through the pants by
Bobo Bobobo the clown > family blown up by Murdock from
MacGyver > plays violent video game > starts working in
telemarketing.

<hr></blockquote>

Oh my god, the horror! the horror!
I shan't sleep tonight.
(note to self: I think that's the first time I've seen shan't used here in a post)<img src=smilies/laff.gif>

Fla Flash 12-01-2005 10:06 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
Good point. To be honest, I believe that nowadays there are too many 'kids having kids'.

Dark Knight Kain 12-01-2005 10:33 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
> (note to self: I think that's the first time I've seen shan't used here in a post)

I used to use shan't all the time, though I don't remember if I ever used it here or not. It's more something I use in real life, people can't believe I worked it into everyday conversation but I did.

Blade556 12-02-2005 01:23 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
You seem to be biased towards it being the parents fault. Although that is part of the problem, it is not the parents who raise their children anymore. It is society. Look around you. What did you learn from your dad that you didn't learn from your peers?

It's everyones fault. I'm sorry if I seemed biased before, I was just playing the advocate of Jack Thompson.

UncleOral 12-02-2005 02:12 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


You seem to be biased towards it being the parents fault.
Although that is part of the problem, it is not the parents
who raise their children anymore. It is society. Look
around you. What did you learn from your dad that you
didn't learn from your peers?


<hr></blockquote>

I learned too many things to even begin listing, some of my behavioral pattern and resentment towards alcohol comes from my dad whether I like it or not. You learn much more from your parents than you realize yourself, because they are usually paragon rolemodels for good or bad (my dad's an alcoholic, I didn't drink until I was 22).
I agree that society plays a huge role in upbringing, sadly there's no denying that. The parents responsibility, however, is making sure things don't get out of hand, and pay close attention to their kids and show them that they are there for them. Not to mention teach them the rules and boundaries that is required for a young mind.

If your child begins showing violent tendencies towards others (playing violent video games or not), you lecture them that it's wrong. If you somehow let their authority figure become a video game (or anything else, however rare such an event is), then you have failed as a parent and the blame lies solely in your hands.
However much society affects children, it only means that it makes parenting more difficult. They are the final arbiter, the alpha and omega, Gods of the household; nothing should challenge that lest they fail their duty and raise Bobo Bobobo the clown.

Blade556 12-02-2005 02:34 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
> I agree that society plays a huge role in upbringing, sadly
> there's no denying that. The parents responsibility,
> however, is making sure things don't get out of hand, and
> pay close attention to their kids and show them that they
> are there for them. Not to mention teach them the rules and
> boundaries that is required for a young mind.

Some parents are just too ignorant to realize the signs. Like my parents, for example. I've taken all sorts of drugs, and they never knew I was a druggie for a while. I cleaned up my act, but I still take Ex and dope.

But anyway, I like your thinking. You can sure dish our the points when you need to :p

In any case, it is very sad that our peers raise most of us, and they set an example for us. But for the parents to have a good effect on how you will be in the future, they gotta start young. I know very few people who idolize their parents, and it's because they all come from shitty neighbourhoods and families who don't really care about them.

We all wish we could live in a perfect world...But we don't. We sit here with our TV's, our houses, our good lives, and we take it for granted. Nobody else in the world asks for things to get better, and don't expect it to.

Anyways, I'm rambling. I hope the best for your dad, I have a grandpa who is an alcoholic too, and he doesn't have many years left...

UncleOral 12-02-2005 03:37 PM

Re: It's a good idea
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


Anyways, I'm rambling. I hope the best for your dad, I have
a grandpa who is an alcoholic too, and he doesn't have many
years left...


<hr></blockquote>
Neither has my dad, he's had heart surgery and is in a piss poor condition. The really sad part is that I'm the only one in the family that cares, because he treated my mom pretty crappy when my siblings and I were kids (never beat her or anything, just a lot of yelling).
Anyhoo, let's not drift into off-topic mode. =)


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