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-   -   Is this legal? (http://www.zophar.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5146)

Kitsune Sniper 06-16-2005 05:27 AM

Is this legal?
 
I won't mention the specific name of the site because that would be giving it free publicity, but I saw that there's a site that allows the downloading of roms for a monthly fee, and you can only run the games while the company's client software is running. I think that's a good idea.

The problem is, they use open source software to run the games.

I downloaded their client to see what was up and they use old versions of Gens, GNUBoy, Nester, z26 and ZSNES. And well, it pissed me off. Isn't the usage of these open source programs in commercial endeavours illegal? Or something like that?

hcs 06-16-2005 05:30 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Isn't the usage of these open source
> programs in commercial endeavours illegal? Or something like
> that?

Depends on the license. If GNUboy is in fact licensed under GNU as its name suggests then there's nothing to prevent people from selling it, so long as the source code to any modifications is provided.

No matter how many times I type license I always feel like I'm spelling it wrong.

Kitsune Sniper 06-16-2005 05:39 AM

Comments from Livejournal
 
I saw this mentioned in a Livejournal community I visit. The owner of the site went to advertise it, and well, I complained.

Me:
I'm pretty sure the authors of the open source emulators you use do not approve the usage of their programs in commercial endeavours.

soundedmind:
We obey the rules of the new open source license. We haven't recieved any complaints from anyone. And they make their stuff open source, unfortunately, they don't have to approve.
*shrugs*

ZSNES even modified their emulator to work with our system :D


Me:
"We haven't recieved any complaints from anyone."

That's because THREE OF THE EMULATORS ARE NO LONGER BEING DEVELOPED BY THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS.

"And they make their stuff open source, unfortunately, they don't have to approve."

It doesn't matter, they didn't make these programs to make money, or for someone else to take advantage of them to make money.

I can't believe people would stoop so low as to do something like this.


soundedmind:
Ok. I'm sorry but I'm not going to argue with you on this.
I'm sorry that you don't approve.
But it is open source annd 1005 legal.
Thank you.


I still don't buy it. The service seems good, it's the usage of these programs that bugs the hell outta me.

Lenophis 06-16-2005 05:43 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

but I saw that there's a site that allows the downloading of roms for a monthly fee,

<hr></blockquote>
They are making money off of licensed products from Nintendo, Sega, Sony, and whathaveyou. THAT is illegal. Using and selling open source software, well, as long as GNU agreement is complied with, they can do whatever the hell they want with it. But selling roms is the no-no.

SwampGas 06-16-2005 07:39 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
If it's who I think it is, then it's perfectly legit. They own the actual carts to the roms they provide...they provide the source to the programs they use...and it's all good.

You sound jealous because you didn't think of it and make money off of it.

Lenophis 06-16-2005 09:13 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

If it's who I think it is, then it's perfectly legit. They own the actual carts to the roms they provide...they provide the source to the programs they use...and it's all good.

<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, and I own carts to the roms I own, but I can't distribute them. Why are they exempt from the psycho copyright law?

MooglyGuy 06-16-2005 01:24 PM

Technically? It's legal.
 
But not for the reasons he listed. "It's open source, so we can freeload off of their work and bilk people out of money" is not a valid reason. The reason why it's technically legal is that unless the authors of the emulator specifically forbade people from making money off of their work, there's nothing they can do. It's also why eBay auctions for arcade ROM CDs with MAME and MAME cabinets loaded with ROMs are being pulled (though legal auctions like HanaHo ArcadePCs are not). They've got a trademark, and since day one the license has forbidden making money off of the MAME name without permission from the authors.

Audigy 06-16-2005 02:27 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> If it's who I think it is, then it's perfectly legit. They
> own the actual carts to the roms they provide...they provide
> the source to the programs they use...and it's all good.
> You sound jealous because you didn't think of it and make
> money off of it.

Ow, zing.

The general consensus is that if you own media, and dump it to digital format, that does not give you the license to share it with anyone.

MPAA and RIAA agree with me, and surely the IDSA does also.

Passive-aggressiveness doesn't suit you, Mr. Gas. :)

Kitsune Sniper 06-16-2005 02:44 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> You sound jealous because you didn't think of it and make
> money off of it.

Actually, I made $550 in two weeks with a $20 investment by selling items on eBay, so I don't need to do shit like that to survive.

Kitsune Sniper 06-16-2005 02:46 PM

Re: Technically? It's legal.
 
MAME was the reason that I made this post. I know Aaron Giles is going to great lengths to keep MAME out of a commercial project and off of eBay; what's to stop those retards from selling the emulators sometime in the future?

Blade556 06-16-2005 02:52 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
Firstly, distributing ROM's is illegal. We all know anything to do with them is illegal, since their very purpose and existence violates copyright law. So it IS illegal to download games from them, ESPECIALLY at a monthly rate. If I were you, I'd contact Nintendo about it.

About their client thingy...Thats legal, if they're using open source software in the first place. It may not be right without consent from the authors, but what can we do...

Anyway, I wouldn't pay for ROM's even if my life depended on it. There's so many other sites that you can get them from anyway.

JCJones86 06-16-2005 03:09 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
I think I've seen the site they're talking about, and AFAIK they have some sort of check-out system. Whereas, they only check-out the number of copies they physically have.

SwampGas 06-16-2005 05:12 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
Blockbuster seems to get away with it.

RaiBlastoise 06-16-2005 06:47 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
Man, I've got tons of ROMs, and nice emulators, and I never had to pay a monthly fee.
I'm guessing many of you are hackers (at least in the sense of modifying programs), and you could probably change the remaining time of the paid monthly period and stop having to pay them.

SwampGas 06-16-2005 07:14 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
Turn on MTV right now. It's a show about you not being such a fucking dork. Take notes.

soniczip 06-16-2005 08:18 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Turn on MTV right now. It's a show about you not being such
> a fucking dork. Take notes.
What is your problem with Rai? Is it his "blank post" thing? I mean, if you're supposed to be the keeper of the thread, why trash newer users?

SwampGas 06-16-2005 08:49 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> What is your problem with Rai? Is it his "blank post" thing?
> I mean, if you're supposed to be the keeper of the thread,
> why trash newer users?

Hahahahhahahahhahahhhahahahhahahahha

Uh oh guys...the n00b kiddies are ganging up on me.

soniczip 06-16-2005 09:00 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Uh oh guys...the n00b kiddies are ganging up on me.
>
I'm not ganging up on anyone. I just don't see the point of trashing those who are younger than you. I rose up to defend Rai from unearned abuse by older, more experienced ZMD users. If you don't stand up for what you believe in, you are no more than a slave.

SwampGas 06-16-2005 09:10 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I'm not ganging up on anyone. I just don't see the point of
> trashing those who are younger than you. I rose up to defend
> Rai from unearned abuse by older, more experienced ZMD
> users. If you don't stand up for what you believe in, you
> are no more than a slave.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
AHHAAHHAAHHASAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAH

Ladies and gentlemen...we stumbled upon Malcom-X's son.

soniczip 06-16-2005 09:15 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
> AHHAAHHAAHHASAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAH
>
> Ladies and gentlemen...we stumbled upon Malcom-X's son.
>

Tell me. Do you find torturing others for no reason FUNNY? I think it's just sick. Laughing at people is just enjoying yourself at the expense of others. And it's wrong. I experience it every day, so please stop doing it.
P.S. I'm asking NICELY.

SwampGas 06-16-2005 09:30 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Tell me. Do you find torturing others for no reason FUNNY? I
> think it's just sick. Laughing at people is just enjoying
> yourself at the expense of others. And it's wrong. I
> experience it every day, so please stop doing it.
> P.S. I'm asking NICELY.

I'm going to bestow unto you invaluable knowledge and wisdom.

Winning a fight online is not unlike winning the special olympics. In the end, you're still a bunch of retards.

http://img37.echo.cx/img37/7702/biggestfan4hr.jpg

soniczip 06-16-2005 09:39 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I'm going to bestow unto you invaluable knowledge and
> wisdom.
>
> Winning a fight online is not unlike winning the special
> olympics. In the end, you're still a bunch of retards.

This is going nowhere. I see you are not going to stop your sadism.

king killa 06-16-2005 09:45 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
&lt;?
if($Username == "RaiBlastoise" || $Username == "soniczip") {
header("Location: http://www.tubgirl.com");
}
?><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by king killa on 06/16/05 05:45 PM.</FONT></P>

CEpeep 06-16-2005 09:46 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
Hahaha.

<img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

king killa 06-16-2005 09:47 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Hahaha.
>

holy shit that was a fast response.

CEpeep 06-16-2005 09:55 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> holy shit that was a fast response.
>

I saw your internet communication in real-time.

SwampGas 06-16-2005 10:12 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I saw your internet communication in real-time.

Are you a hacker? I clicked on this thing that popped up that said I needed hacker protection so I'm safe now.

CEpeep 06-16-2005 10:27 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Are you a hacker? I clicked on this thing that popped up
> that said I needed hacker protection so I'm safe now.
>

http://www.kgr8thx.com/haxorpc.jpg

SwampGas 06-16-2005 10:52 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

pwnt <img src=smilies/laff.gif>

JadussD 06-16-2005 11:23 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> This is going nowhere. I see you are not going to stop your
> sadism.

Sadism is when someone ties you up in their basement for six hours and tortures you to death with power tools while laughing maniacally, not when someone makes fun of you on the Internet. Ever heard of the eye roll, or if worse comes to worse, a middle finger presented without turning to face the person, communicating the general idea of "Well, fuck you, but your comment wasn't even worth expending more energy than extending a finger on"? If someone makes fun of you, they're a lot more effective than taking someone aside and telling them it's not nice to belittle other people, as if you're trying to break up a gang rape or something, which turns you into a cretinous table-hopping whiner. Do you really think someone who's making fun of you feels like being nice at the moment? Don't you think they KNOW they're not being nice?

The 9th Sage 06-17-2005 01:58 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I won't mention the specific name of the site because that
> would be giving it free publicity, but I saw that there's a
> site that allows the downloading of roms for a monthly fee,
> and you can only run the games while the company's client
> software is running. I think that's a good idea.

Well, considering they are selling copies of things they have no right to sell, I'd say it must be illegal.

The 9th Sage 06-17-2005 02:04 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
>I
> experience it every day, so please stop doing it.
> P.S. I'm asking NICELY.

On a message board, I've found that the best way to get people to stop bugging you is to just ignore them and stop responding to their posts.

hcs 06-17-2005 02:18 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Well, considering they are selling copies of things they
> have no right to sell, I'd say it must be illegal.

It's more like renting access to things they physically own. They have a system in place where whenever you get a ROM it checks it out of their system against a real cartridge and when they run out of cartridges for that game everyone else has to wait until you're done. I presume there's a good deal of encryption on the communications so you can't just pick the ROM off the wire or dump it from RAM.
On that subject, this would require modification to the emulator, wouldn't it? So wouldn't some emus licenses require them to release the sources to the decryption and downloading modifications? Something tells me this isn't being done... Then again maybe I'm entirely wrong, or they manage minor changes to the emu and link their pay-per-play core into that.

The 9th Sage 06-17-2005 02:24 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> It's more like renting access to things they physically own.
> They have a system in place where whenever you get a ROM it
> checks it out of their system against a real cartridge and
> when they run out of cartridges for that game everyone else
> has to wait until you're done.

I don't really buy this...I mean, with something like NetFlix, you're getting an actual hardcopy of the DVD. This somehow seems different to me than giving out a ROM copy of the games. Maybe this is like a copyright loophole or something.

Kitsune Sniper 06-17-2005 03:23 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
*snip*
> On that subject, this would require modification to the
> emulator, wouldn't it? So wouldn't some emus licenses
> require them to release the sources to the decryption and
> downloading modifications?

They have source code available for some of the emulators they use. As to how much is was modified, I do not know.

And from what I gather, the way the client works is: You log in, download the game (if available), save the copy to a temporary file, then automatically run the emulator with the game. Once the client is closed, the file cannot be played anymore (or at least that's how I believe it works).

hcs 06-17-2005 04:58 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> From what I gather, the way the client works is: You log
> in, download the game (if available), save the copy to a
> temporary file, then automatically run the emulator with the
> game. Once the client is closed, the file cannot be played
> anymore (or at least that's how I believe it works).

Oh, I guess I was thinking of a different service.

JCJones86 06-17-2005 06:16 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I don't really buy this...I mean, with something like
> NetFlix, you're getting an actual hardcopy of the DVD. This
> somehow seems different to me than giving out a ROM copy of
> the games. Maybe this is like a copyright loophole or
> something.

Well, something tells me an online NES/SNES/GEN/etc. rental service based on shipping of actual cartridges wouldn't quite work today...

At least they're trying to do it legal. I'll give them credit for that. In fact, I think it's something like this that has spawned the big N's idea to include a downloadable history museum of sorts on their Revolution console.

soniczip 06-17-2005 06:18 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
>Do youreally think someone who's making fun of you feels like being nice at the moment? Don't you think they KNOW they're not being nice?

For future reference, Swampy can never be nice nor silence himself when it would be benefiting mankind, or making the world a better place.
This is Swampy's attitude:
<img src=smilies/2gunsfiring_v1.gif> first, be nice later.

Bungo BillFutt 10-07-2005 11:51 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Blockbuster seems to get away with it.
>

Evidently you're either unaware or (going by the dictionary here) ignorant of the fact that Blockbuster pays a substantial fee for games, above and beyond the MSRP. This is known as a "rental fee".

You don't know much, that's okay, you're the head of zophar, so it means you're not gay. Just letting you know in a tiresome way that your coyness in this thread made me want to go lay an egg. Now I'll go eat smeg.

Kthx.

<s><font size=-2>Oh boy, my first post is totally replying to a four month old thead and slamming a forum mod, if this was gameFAGs or digitpenis I'd be totally banned.</font></s>

The 9th Sage 10-08-2005 02:20 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
It's good thing this is not GameFAQs isn't it then, eh?<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by The 9th Sage on 10/07/05 10:20 PM.</FONT></P>

SwampGas 10-08-2005 04:39 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
I don't even know what this was about...and I'm too lazy to go read the thread...so I'll just agree with you and say "um. ok."

mrblowtatoes 10-08-2005 07:08 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
what is the big deal about roms anyones?..it's not like the companies actually give a shit that you have roms, hell, i could prolly walk into a plice station and tell them i have 5 gigs of snes roms..and they wouldn't give a damn..prolly wouldn't even know wtf i was talking about..

as for the website selling roms...i think it is alot better then selling cartrages..

though, i was always agaisnt, and always will be agaisnt selling soemthing that has inifnate quanites..such as computer programs...

JadussD 10-08-2005 07:18 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> as for the website selling roms...i think it is alot better
> then selling cartrages..

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA@!#@#!#@!)(#@I@#(@$_(! $I(@!

Diskeater 10-08-2005 07:31 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> as for the website selling roms...i think it is alot better
> then selling cartrages..
> though, i was always agaisnt, and always will be agaisnt
> selling soemthing that has inifnate quanites..such as
> computer programs...

Sooooo....it's better that a website sells copies of a game rather than the actual physical game?

I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't respond but it just hurts sometimes.

The 9th Sage 10-09-2005 02:04 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> what is the big deal about roms anyones?..it's not like the
> companies actually give a shit that you have roms, hell, i
> could prolly walk into a plice station and tell them i have
> 5 gigs of snes roms..and they wouldn't give a damn..prolly
> wouldn't even know wtf i was talking about..

If you have a ROM of a game you do not own (and some say even if you didn't dump this ROM yourself and you own the game) it is illegal because quite simply you don't own that, and when we take things we do not own isn't that stealing? Personally, piracy of old systems that aren't commercially viable anymore (NES, SNES for example) I could care less. What really pisses me off is the things like the rampant GBA piracy scene, and the budding NDS piracy scene...yes there is one and yes it's possible to play this pirated games. I have tried their software on dumps of games I myself have created from my games that I OWN.

That reason is probably why Nintendo is changing the NDS's firmware in later hardware releases (Japan has it, apparently some of Europe does as well. Not sure about the US yet), to make it harder for people to pirate games. It's unfortunate that it's also going to make it harder for people to play legal homebrew games and software.

Yay for piracy. <img src=smilies/banghead.gif> Stupid pirates.

Dark Knight Kain 10-09-2005 09:33 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Yay for piracy. Stupid pirates.

I really hate the GBA ROM scene, it's all about getting the games for free. I'm sure it's the same for a lot of people who emulate NES, SNES, and Genesis games, but I own a lot of the games I emulate and I buy a lot of the ones I like but don't own (Super Metroid, I can't believe I passed this up back in the day... easily my best SNES purchase)

I stopped hacking GBA games because I don't support the piracy. I don't even have VBA on my computer anymore, playing on the emulator sucks compared to playing on my SP.

Kitsune Sniper 10-10-2005 12:19 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I stopped hacking GBA games because I don't support the
> piracy. I don't even have VBA on my computer anymore,
> playing on the emulator sucks compared to playing on my SP.

I guess I'm one of those rare cases where people actually bought the game they played on an emulator.

I first played every six of the ten GBA games I own on Visual Boy Advance (Golden Sun 1, 2, that Diablo-ripoff LOTR game and Konami Arcade Classics don't count), and in fact they influenced me to buy the games.

Of course, that doesn't explain the other 2139 roms in the GBA folder... <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

Maxwell Murder 10-10-2005 12:41 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Of course, that doesn't explain the other 2139 roms in the
> GBA folder...

research. [img]/wwwthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

The 9th Sage 10-10-2005 04:29 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> I really hate the GBA ROM scene, it's all about getting the
> games for free. I'm sure it's the same for a lot of people
> who emulate NES, SNES, and Genesis games, but I own a lot of
> the games I emulate and I buy a lot of the ones I like but
> don't own (Super Metroid, I can't believe I passed this up
> back in the day... easily my best SNES purchase)

I actually have been making an effort to track down some of the stuff I have downloaded from the SNES era that I don't have. I hate the whole GBA thing as well (although I admit downloading Circle of Moon japanese version before the US launch out of curiosity), and even PSX...I've actually been buying a lot of used PSX games lately.

MegaManJuno 10-10-2005 05:25 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
I finished both Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission before they released in the US (english leaks before release), but still bought both games anyway. I'm constantly buying things I've already acquired through other means, if I deem it worthy of a purchase.<img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

Fla Flash 10-10-2005 11:17 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
I'm with you DKK. GBA emulation's about nothing more than "I want free". I ceased a GBA hack as well and there's nothing like playing the games I like on my DS or my GC Gameboy player.
The rom tide has turned toward the GBA. Once the Revoloution comes out, I'm sure we'll see a resurgence in the older ones.

sephiroth111 10-11-2005 02:54 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> > Yay for piracy. Stupid pirates.
> I really hate the GBA ROM scene, it's all about getting the
> games for free. I'm sure it's the same for a lot of people
> who emulate NES, SNES, and Genesis games, *snip*

iirc i think it was the driving force behind snes and nes emulation. homebrew code is great and all, but if there was no interest in making an emulator there wouldn't be enough data available or a place that wouldn't damage actual hardware. honestly, i think its for the good and bad. i cant say i support nintendo's views, but i still own the revisions of the gameboy. (gb, gbpocket, gbc, gba, gbasp, and now the DS) and while i do own a flash cart, i find myself playing games more like pocketnes and the like, because the games are actually fun. let alone i can fit 30 games or so in the space of 8mb. =)

eh, without pirates, i dont know how advanced some of the homebrews would be. not like there are many professional quality homebrew out there but the point still stands.

8Ball 10-16-2005 05:39 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> i could prolly walk into a plice station and tell them i have
> 5 gigs of snes roms..and they wouldn't give a damn

Uh...I don't believe there's even 5 gigs worth of roms in the whole goodset of SNES roms. I personally have what I think is the entire US set plus a handfull of translated japanese roms and that just breaks 700Megs.

Kitsune Sniper 10-16-2005 04:40 PM

Re: Is this legal?
 
> Uh...I don't believe there's even 5 gigs worth of roms in
> the whole goodset of SNES roms. I personally have what I
> think is the entire US set plus a handfull of translated
> japanese roms and that just breaks 700Megs.

http://www.zophar.net/wwwthreads/att...al&Post=273740<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Kitsune Sniper on 10/16/05 12:40 PM.</FONT></P>

C:Serverxampphtdocszopharoldwwwthrea...tsgoodsnes.png

8Ball 10-17-2005 01:57 AM

Re: Is this legal?
 
Hmm...I stand corrected. I neglected to consider bad dumps, over dumps, hacks, betas....blah blah blah. But anyway, damn! That's alot of stuff.


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