Now For MY Post-Election Speech

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SpaceTiger

New member
DISCLAIMER 1 - This is not aimed at specific members of the board.

DISCLAIMER 2 - I'm not going to argue specific points in this post, as I've addressed them all at one point or another. Besides, if you feel like nitpicking, you're probably missing the point.


Yeah, so I'm really fucking pissed. Fuck everybody. Seriously. I'm terrified of our future and I'm not sure I even want to live here anymore. The fact that over 50% of voters would support a moronic, right-wing lunatic just blows my mind. But my rage goes beyond that:

Media - You're all a bunch of fucking cowards. You let the right convince you that you're biased and unreliable. You shower me with partisan pundits who have nothing say and voting results I could have pulled out of my ass. You swallow any bullshit this administration feeds you and happily spread the virus of phoney patriotism that has been making me so ashamed to be an American. Fuck you.

Liberals - More cowards. The Republicans made you their bitch like George W. to Laura. Stand up for what you fucking believe in every once and a while and maybe people will get off their asses and vote for you. You didn't want the fucking Iraq War. You don't fucking oppose gay marriage. Say what you really mean, not what you think people want you to mean. Fuck you too.

Conservatives - So you're opposed to gay marriage? Stem-cell research? Concerned about the moral issues of society? Wake the fuck up! We have a president who's sent us into two wars in four years, both of which were offensive and both of which were on shaky grounds. The economy has fallen to shit and our constitutional rights are being torn to shreads. All the Republicans I know IRL voted against George W. Bush. Why? Because they were socially or economically liberal? Fuck no. It's because they knew he was fucking up our country.

Third-Party and Non-Voters: Trying to rebel? Trying to change the system? Want everything exactly your way? Congratulations, you just made all of those things much less likely to happen. Who knows, maybe you'll even get to fight in a war pretty soon. But hey, you made a statement, right? I wonder when you'll realize that you're the only ones who even care?

Everyone: Wake up. Read the fucking news. Your president was just elected by the far right. Your country is in two wars, neither of which appear to have an end in sight. Your economy is in the toilet. My god, your electoral system is being manipulated by a video tape of a dirty, bearded man from Saudi Arabia.

This is America, for god's sake, a country that led the allies to victory over Hitler, a country that built itself up from nothing to become the most powerful nation in the world in only 200 years, and a country that is supposed to stand for freedom, opportunity, and ingenuity across the globe. What do we stand for now? Greed, arrogance, narrow-mindednes...if only you knew how quickly the rest of the world was growing to hate you. And not just your government or this particular administration -- you. Terrorist organizations have been disrupted in the short term, but America's unilateral actions have filled their ranks and promised us nothing less than a future of hate and fear. If you really think that Osama bin Laden was trying to convince you to vote for Kerry, I feel very sorry for you.

We're entering dark times.

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I couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent post....and I as you, fear greatly for the future of our nation. This could very well be the beginning of the end...and lucky us, we'll all be here to wallow in the pain.

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haw...my evaluation of you still stands.

i suggest in the future you should whine less, and do more.

the reason bush is our president has nothing to do with perceived intelligence, it has to do with bush's willingness to do as he says he will do. your intellectualizing is just that; intellectualizing. i doubt you've ever lifted a finger to help your fellow man, and i doubt you ever will. john kerry was just like you...a big, fat, liberal talker. a man that wrote ZERO legislation in TWENTY senate years, yet spoke as if he accomplished great things on the Hill.

if you want to play the role of martyr, do it somewhere else. i'm sick of watching you pout as those "gosh-darn mean republicans" stamp out your supposed freedoms. you have no willingness to fight for your liberty, and therefore relinquish all right to opinion. go slink away and cry on al franken's shoulder, and spare the rest of us from your infernal boo hoo-ing.

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I'm not an American, but I understand what you're saying and how you're feeling. I think that if I were an American, I would think like that too. Your post make sense to me.

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'' What kind of freedom is bought with a gun ? '' - Bruce Dickinson </P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Cornellius on 11/04/04 12:38 PM.</FONT></P>
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

DISCLAIMER 1 - This is not aimed at specific members of the board.
DISCLAIMER 2 - I'm not going to argue specific points in this post, as I've addressed them all at one point or another. Besides, if you feel like nitpicking, you're probably missing the point.

<hr></blockquote>

Well, it’s all arguable. I understand that you’re upset, I would be totally bummed if John Kerry was elected because these coming years are important to the future of America. People always want to know your three main issues. Mine are simple. North Korea and Iran, Protecting America, and supreme court nominations.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Yeah, so I'm really fucking pissed. Fuck everybody. Seriously. I'm terrified of our future and I'm not sure I even want to live here anymore. The fact that over 50% of voters would support a moronic, right-wing lunatic just blows my mind. But my rage goes beyond that:

<hr></blockquote>

There are so many threats to leave the country. You know, I would have cringed and accepted John Kerry as president of the United States. The post-election rhetoric on the liberal side is scary. You lost the election, John Kerry fought hard—but in the end, he’s not what America wants or needs.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Media - You're all a bunch of fucking cowards. You let the right convince you that you're biased and unreliable.

<hr></blockquote>

The media lets the people overwhelmingly know that they’re biased and unreliable.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Liberals - More cowards. The Republicans made you their bitch like George W. to Laura.

<hr></blockquote>

You mean Bill to Hilary? LOL, you’re the first person I’ve ever heard make such a statement about the first lady.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Stand up for what you fucking believe in every once and a while and maybe people will get off their asses and vote for you. You didn't want the fucking Iraq War. You don't fucking oppose gay marriage. Say what you really mean, not what you think people want you to mean. Fuck you too.

<hr></blockquote>

This, is why the Democrats lost. You can’t play to both sides, you can’t make everybody happy. I’m a supporter of civil partnership, so I didn’t like the amendment on the Ohio ballot. I remember thinking George Bush was insane when he went absolutely gung-ho in support of constitutional amendment banning gay marriage... but now I see it. Strategically, this why he won the election. Frankly, I’d rather see a constitutional amendment banning abortion.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Conservatives - So you're opposed to gay marriage? Stem-cell research?
Concerned about the moral issues of society? Wake the fuck up!

<hr></blockquote>
Well, you’re right. For the most part, the reasons why most Republicans voted for Bush was on the issue of morality (according to CNN exit polls), but the reason why people voted for Kerry was generally because they hated the president. You want the Democrats to win an election? Chose somebody worthwhile. Don’t let the interest groups chose your candidates. I can honestly say that moral fiber wasn’t my leading issue, but it played a role. Even as a conservative Christian, I can’t see how opposing gay-marriage makes somebody any more “moral”. I support protecting marriage as a union between a man and a women, but it was nowhere near my leading issue.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

We have a president who's sent us into two wars in four years, both of which were offensive and both of which were on shaky grounds.

<hr></blockquote>

Afghanistan was an offensive war? How so? You said not to nit-pick, and well aware of your view on Iraq—but I’m curious as to why you would oppose going after Al Qaeda.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

The economy has fallen to shit and our constitutional rights are being torn to shreads.

<hr></blockquote>

Economy is on the rise and the Patriot Act is hardly as Orwellian as people like to say. I may not agree with all of it, but I don’t oppose it as violently as the liberals do because most of it is entirely necessary. Freedom comes with a social contract, and the Patriot Act hardly makes me feel unsafe in my home.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

All the Republicans I know IRL voted against George W. Bush. Why? Because they were socially or economically liberal? Fuck no. It's because they knew he was fucking up our country.

<hr></blockquote>

You’re not exactly living on a conservative campus. I think most of your post has been overly angry and irrational, as if the world is going to end next week. If we’re heading head first into World War 3, I want this President at the helm over John Kerry.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Third-Party and Non-Voters: Trying to rebel? Trying to change the system? Want everything exactly your way? Congratulations, you just made all of those things much less likely to happen. Who knows, maybe you'll even get to fight in a war pretty soon. But hey, you made a statement, right? I wonder when you'll realize that you're the only ones who even care?

<hr></blockquote>

Man, do you really think John Kerry was the messiah for our country? I have progressive views when it comes to giving 3rd party candidates a voice. Put them all on the ballot and let those people vote. And what is it with you and pushing the draft theory again?

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Everyone: Wake up. Read the fucking news. Your president was just elected by the far right. Your country is in two wars, neither of which appear to have an end in sight. Your economy is in the toilet. My god, your electoral system is being manipulated by a video tape of a dirty, bearded man from Saudi Arabia.

<hr></blockquote>
As we can see, the video had no effect on the election whatsoever.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

This is America, for god's sake, a country that led the allies to victory over Hitler, a country that built itself up from nothing to become the most powerful nation in the world in only 200 years, and a country that is supposed to stand for freedom, opportunity, and ingenuity across the globe. What do we stand for now? Greed, arrogance, narrow-mindednes...if only you knew how quickly the rest of the world was growing to hate you. And not just your government or this particular administration -- you. Terrorist organizations have been disrupted in the short term, but America's unilateral actions have filled their ranks and promised us nothing less than a future of hate and fear. If you really think that Osama bin Laden was trying to convince you to vote for Kerry, I feel very sorry for you.

<hr></blockquote>

I’d like to know how you can know so well the motivations of Osama Bin Laden. If it weren’t for the President, his terrorist training camps wouldn’t be under constant threat.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

We're entering dark times.

<hr></blockquote>

We agree on something. But we disagree on the cause on the way to handle it. I want you to know that I genuinely feel bad for all those who put their souls into the election and lost in the end. But it is time to move on, spacetiger. BTW, if you have instant messenger I’d like to talk to you sometime about the election and the future of the country.


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*snip*


Great post, I completely agree. I've never felt lucky living in Norway before now, even when looking at how it is in third-world countries....odd, isn't it?

Hopefully the mistake will only entail America and not affect the rest of the world too much, but that's a futile shred of hope. If anything this just bolstered Bush's self-esteem and made him confident he can get away with waging wars on false premisses. North Korea next? Then....?

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> I’d like to know how you can know so well the motivations of
> Osama Bin Laden. If it weren’t for the President, his
> terrorist training camps wouldn’t be under constant threat.

Gotta say, I agreed with most of your points (have you been taking crazy pills - or have I?) but this is just something I wanted to clarify. To the 'Rest of the World' (TM) before the election, it was a generally acknowledged fact that if Bush was re-elected it would be on the back of his support amongst conservative christians, combined with the percieved view that Bush would be much better for national security, and for fighting the war on terror, than Kerry. Therefore, anything which brought the issues of national security (aka fear of terrorist attacks) to the forefront of the media would likely help Bush across the line. It was hypothesized that there might be a terrorist attack in the lead-up, but there was a video released instead. The US public was expected to react very differently to this perceived threat than the Spanish public did to the terrorist threats prior to their election, and react differently they did - by defying Osama's 'request' not to vote for a candidate who threatened him, aka Bush. So in voting for Bush, the general public presumed they were helping fight the terrorists.

And that may well be the end result, over the next four years Osama might be found and Al-Quaeda routed. Personally, I think it's incredibly unlikely - and even if it can be managed, the process of doing so can only lead to even more instability and bloodshed in the Middle East.

My point in reply to your above comment though is that no, we don't know exactly what Osama was thinking when he made that tape. But we have to presume he's an intelligent man, and knew that it would help Bush across the line, rather than harming him. This can be rationalised fairly simply: Bush's war in Iraq did not harm the terrorist infrastructure at all. It distracted from the real threats in the world, and has ended up creating a maelstrom of hatred and criminality in Iraq. 100, 000 cilvilians are supposedly dead since the war started, and I don't think their surviving relatives are putting the blame on Saddam, or thanking the US for 'liberating' them. The number of potential terrorist recruits has skyrocketed. And after this long distraction, there have been no hints as to the whereabouts of the terrorists everyone really wants to catch. Osama's having a laugh about it all somewhere.

In summary: the video helped Bush across the line, because the voters thought they were fighting terrorism. But it was most likely exactly what the terrorists wanted anyway.

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Yeah. Gotta say I agree with pretty much all of it, even if I never really went through the same anger, but that was probably only because I didn't really expect Kerry would win. And because I live in Australia.

Seriously, if you ever feel the need to get out of the country, come join us down here. It's great, if you can ignore the fact that the religious right is just starting to get a foothold in politics here. Nice beaches. Less rampant obesity. Comparatively zero crime. Think of it as being similar to Canada in terms of being 'nice', but without the french influence. Oh, and you can actually put some real distance between you and the US.

Go on. You know you want to. We can see a whole different bunch of stars down here. <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

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I guess I see that as a good thing. I'd always want the trustee over the delegate.

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Gotta say, I agreed with most of your points (have you been taking crazy pills - or have I?)

<hr></blockquote>
I just think Spacetiger was especially heated when he wrote the post. I can imagine how upset I would have been if John Kerry were elected... but the fact is, Democrats need to back away from this "end of the world" theory so we can come together and continue along the best path for our future.
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

but this is just something I wanted to clarify. To the 'Rest of the World' (TM) before the election, it was a generally acknowledged fact that if Bush was re-elected it would be on the back of his support amongst conservative christians, combined with the percieved view that Bush would be much better for national security, and for fighting the war on terror, than Kerry. Therefore, anything which brought the issues of national security (aka fear of terrorist attacks) to the forefront of the media would likely help Bush across the line. It was hypothesized that there might be a terrorist attack in the lead-up, but there was a video released instead. The US public was expected to react very differently to this perceived threat than the Spanish public did to the terrorist threats prior to their election, and react differently they did - by defying Osama's 'request' not to vote for a candidate who threatened him, aka Bush. So in voting for Bush, the general public presumed they were helping fight the terrorists.

<hr></blockquote>
Well, you can argue this, but I really don't think the election had anything to do with the video, even though the video had everything to do with the election. Osama clearly wanted to affect the results, but in the end, he didn't. And from reading the transcript, he criticized the President and America-- but he didn't exactly endorse John Kerry, either. In the end, I think he wanted to stir things up to prove his power over the American people. A terrorist attack on the nation would have obviously been better for the president, so Osama Bin Laden tried something different that ended up being too weak to have any effect at all.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

And that may well be the end result, over the next four years Osama might be found and Al-Quaeda routed. Personally, I think it's incredibly unlikely - and even if it can be managed, the process of doing so can only lead to even more instability and bloodshed in the Middle East.

<hr></blockquote>
I fear the process of not doing it would lead to much worse.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

My point in reply to your above comment though is that no, we don't know exactly what Osama was thinking when he made that tape. But we have to presume he's an intelligent man, and knew that it would help Bush across the line, rather than harming him. This can be rationalised fairly simply: Bush's war in Iraq did not harm the terrorist infrastructure at all. It distracted from the real threats in the world, and has ended up creating a maelstrom of hatred and criminality in Iraq. 100, 000 cilvilians are supposedly dead since the war started, and I don't think their surviving relatives are putting the blame on Saddam, or thanking the US for 'liberating' them. The number of potential terrorist recruits has skyrocketed. And after this long distraction, there have been no hints as to the whereabouts of the terrorists everyone really wants to catch. Osama's having a laugh about it all somewhere. In summary: the video helped Bush across the line, because the voters thought they were fighting terrorism. But it was most likely exactly what the terrorists wanted anyway.

<hr></blockquote>
Well, then we disagree. The fact that terrorists have moved in droves into Iraq shows the desperation of these people... can you imagine how big a threat a Iraqi Democracy is to them and the surrounding nations? John Kerry would have continued to fight in Iraq, no doubt-- but I don't believe for a second he would have gone after terrorism as vigorously as the president.

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That's nothing. Technically you might not even have to win 25% of the popular vote to take the presidency. click me

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> Seriously, if you ever feel the need to get out of the
> country, come join us down here...
> Go on. You know you want to.

I really, really do. Of all the places I've been, Australia is by far the coolest. When I finish my schooling, I will seriously consider it.

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> I really, really do. Of all the places I've been, Australia
> is by far the coolest. When I finish my schooling, I will
> seriously consider it.

SpaceTiger. Why don't you just elect a new president in four years?



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> Go on. You know you want to. We can see a whole different
> bunch of stars down here.

It really is weird to see that. I must have spent hours staring at the night sky in New Zealand. What a country. I'm sure Australia is every bit as spiffy.

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I'll tell you one thing, I'm absolutely sick of all this crap, and the prospect of four more years discussing "the War on Terror", "Al-Qaeda", "Bushisms", "stem-cell research", and "tax-cuts for the wealthiest 1%" makes me want to sit in some obscure coffee shop until it all blows over.

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> SpaceTiger. Why don't you just elect a new president in four
> years?

Huh? I've wanted to live in Australia since I was 10. Besides, whichever party wins the next election, we'll probably be better off than we are now.

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That are everlasting
Though all just plastic too..." </P>
 
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