If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote...

Big fucking deal. *nt*

> Kerry would have won all 50 states.
>
http> ://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/creation/evol-poll.htm
> (Where I got my 45% number.)
>


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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

Who cares? As a student I've studied just how thin the evolutionary theory of men is. They can have less than a quarter of a skull to classify a new species in the development of humans, and you know that nice straight line progression from prehistoric man to modern day? Obsolete. Modern day evolutionists tend to lead towards a most bush-like diagram with hundreds of broken links, ended paths and probable jumps. Next, most Christians aren't in the business of putting exact time lengths on the creation of the world.

Lastly. What are you saying here? That Christians shouldn't have been allowed to vote? It's no secret that people of faith voted for the President on large scales. It's no secret that people who cling to evolution voted for the challenger. What are you trying to proove?

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> Kerry would have won all 50 states.

Interesting....but I find the fact that the "red states" are the ones that receive the most of federal money in aid...and the "blue states" are the ones fitting the bill. So basically, what we have here is a dichotomy of interests....the red states love the federal government b/c they keep getting the money....and the blue states hate the federal governemnt for having to pay for the red states ineptitude (them's fightin words, aint they?)...so obviously who's voting for the prez....the one thats going to keep getting them the money that comes from the ones they hate to begin with (but the thing, is...most of them probably dont realize that that's where the money comes from so I can't draw the conclusion that they are intentinoally doing it)

Wow....that whole post is a steaming pile of shit.....bah, fuck it.

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

<a href=http://gadflyer.com/flytrap/index.php?Week=200447#1201>More info on the Gallup.</a>

> As a student I've studied just how thin the
> evolutionary theory of men is.

<a href=http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/>The Evidence for human evolution.</a>

I enjoyed how you phrased this. You didn't study human evolution, and realized how thin it is on your own terms. You just looked to reaffirm what you already think.

> Lastly. What are you saying here? That Christians shouldn't
> have been allowed to vote?

It's Sephirstein. What do you expect?

> It's no secret that people of
> faith voted for the President on large scales. It's no
> secret that people who cling to evolution voted for the
> challenger. What are you trying to proove?

People of faith versus people who cling to evolution? That's incredibly unfair.

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

Look, no one has seen God make the universe and no one has witnessed an ape evolve into a human.
Both are faiths.
Some choose to put their faith in scientists who's theories change every few months. Some put into the prophets who lived centures ago.
Its personal preference

I do not beleive in macroevolution. I can understand those who do I just have not seen enough conclusive evidence for it.
I haven't seen any conclusive evidence for Creation either, it all hinges on faith like I said.

I am a Creationist and I voted for Kerry. I voted just like most Christians supposedly did, on morals. It was immoral to attack Iraq in my opinion, it's immoral for the rich to profit more from taxes than the poor. It's immoral to use fear in a campaign.

I just want it known just because someone beleives in Creation doesn't make them stupid, brainwashed, and unworthy to vote.






<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> I do not beleive in macroevolution. I can understand those
> who do I just have not seen enough conclusive evidence for
> it.

http://ebonmusings.org/evolution/index.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

> I just want it known just because someone beleives in
> Creation doesn't make them stupid, brainwashed, and unworthy
> to vote.

I completely agree.


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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

People have been in existence for 5,764 years...seeing as though it's the 10th of Kislev, 5765.

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> Look, no one has seen God make the universe and no one has
> witnessed an ape evolve into a human.
> Both are faiths.

No. Science is not faith. In fact, it's the exact opposite. Science is the sum total of the experiences of millions (perhaps billions) of people.

Imagine you drop a ball from your hand to the ground and it falls to the floor in about 0.5 seconds. You then repeat this experiment five more times and every time it falls in about 0.5 seconds. Would you say that you have "faith" that the next time you drop it, it will take about 0.5 seconds to hit the ground? I certainly wouldn't. I would say "my experience has told me that it probably will." A scientist can never tell you with 100% certainty what will happen, but they can often give you very close to that.

Theories do change over time (it's silly to expect a scientist to understand a complex system completely in their first try), but the changes are usually additions or modifications, not complete rewrites. The theory of evolution, as put down by Darwin over 100 years ago, is practically unchanged in the present day. We can never go back in time to test its application to humans, but we can test it on other animals (like fruit flies and microbes) and we can test its predictions (for ours and other complex animals' behavior). At some point, it becomes just like the dropping ball. Your experience tells you that it probably applies to humans as well.

This is not to say I agree with Sephirstein about the voting thing, though.

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Though all just plastic too..." </P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> No. Science is not faith. In fact, it's the exact
> opposite. Science is the sum total of the experiences of
> millions (perhaps billions) of people.
>

I'm not trying to get into this argument. Science is not faith ofcourse. You can observe a ball dropping to the ground but you can't observe a shrew evolve into a wolf. See my point?

Anyways, this isn't what I was getting at in my post.



<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> People of faith versus people who cling to evolution? That's
> incredibly unfair.
>
Yes its unfair, but insinuating Creationists shouldn't be able to vote in far more unfair.



<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> People have been in existence for 5,764 years...seeing as
> though it's the 10th of Kislev, 5765.
>

Swampgas you're Jewish? Happy Hannukah!



<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> Swampgas you're Jewish? Happy Hannukah!

We own everything else already...why not emulation, too? <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> http://ebonmusings.org/evolution/index.html
> http://talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
>

I've read them and some things can be attributed to macroevolution, but other theories explain them as well. You'll have to do better than this to convince me. :P

<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

>
> We own everything else already...why not emulation, too?
>
<img src=smilies/werd.gif>

<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

You can observe a ball dropping to the
> ground but you can't observe a shrew evolve into a wolf.
> See my point?

No I dont. The theory of evolution does not state that a shrew will develop into a wolf or anything close to that.

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

>
> No I dont. The theory of evolution does not state that a
> shrew will develop into a wolf or anything close to that.
>


Well technically a tiny shrew- like mammal that evolved in cretaceous period is the ancestor or all living mammals according to everything I've read. :P

<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

Interesting fact....

The founder of ZD, the actual "Zophar", was also Jewish. We decided to "keep it in the family."

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Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> Interesting fact....
>
> The founder of ZD, the actual "Zophar", was also Jewish. We
> decided to "keep it in the family."
>
Holy shit. Jews kick ass! YEEEAAAAHHHHHH!

<P ID="signature">Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.
-Mahatma Gandhi</P>
 
Re: If the 45% of Americans who believe that the Earth is 6000-years-old had not been allwed to vote

> Science is not
> faith ofcourse. You can observe a ball dropping to the
> ground but you can't observe a shrew evolve into a wolf.
> See my point?

Then here's another example. Imagine that you drop a ball from a variety of heights and measure the time it takes to hit the ground in each case. You discover that, after many measurements, it fits a simple forumla:

t = sqrt( 2*height/g)

where g is a constant number.

During the course of your experiment, you wanted to try dropping it from the top of a building, but nobody would let you onto the roof of the really tall ones. Thus, you were unable to perform the experiment and see it drop from that height. Does this mean that you have no idea how long it would have taken to drop? Of course not, you've observed a trend in the earlier drops that could give you an indication.

This is the current state of evolution. We've observed it in simple animals that evolve very quickly, but we expect it to take much longer for humans. We have other evidence, such as anatomical and genetic similarities to other species and the presence of "races" (people with biological differences depending on their environment), which strongly supports evolution.

It's not impossible that evolution is wrong, but it gets less and less likely with time. The evidence is overwhelming.

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That are everlasting
Though all just plastic too..." </P>
 
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