Front Page Issue
- Thread starter Gil-Galad
- Start date
Gil-Galad
New member
Unfortunately, some of us can't upgrade to SP2 in order to upgrade to IE 7. SP2 causes problems for a number of machines, including mine. I haven't made a determined effort to install IE 7, without SP2 and I don't know if you can either.
I seem to remember having some problems with a site that I had made awhile back. I solved the problem by using older version code that does nearly the same thing, and it worked in both browsers.
I'll take a look at the code later and tell you if I figure anything out, using IE6 and Opera as a comparison. It's about the best I can do.
Gil-Galad
New member
Actually, I'm fine using Opera as I had stated earlier.
Not everyone is going to switch to other browsers. So it's best to go for compatibility if you can. That's a sign of a good website administrator.
Reaper man
Member
a good website administrator conforms to web standards and doesn't support old, inaccurate web browsers. Edman has it right.
Cornellius
Active member
I use Opera. Way faster. Opera isn't an inacurate browser, in fact, Opera got the best ACID score.
And the layout works in Opera, it works in Firefox, it works in the latest version of IE. And even in IE6, its not like the layout doesn't work. There's just an 11px black line on top of the screen, and while not aesthetically pleasing, it doesn't look that bad either. Only 14% of this site's users use IE6 anyway.
But OK, I understand that there are some people who are forced to browse website from an environment they have not set up and have little control over, so I'm going to add that browser check and the extra stylesheet bit. I just have to get hold of a computer that still runs IE6.
But OK, I understand that there are some people who are forced to browse website from an environment they have not set up and have little control over, so I'm going to add that browser check and the extra stylesheet bit. I just have to get hold of a computer that still runs IE6.
Ugly Joe
New member
A good website administrator makes a site that looks buggy in a fair percentage of users' browsers?
The page should look good in IE6 as well as standards compliant browsers. A problem as small as this one can likely be fixed with a small CSS tweak. Having the site include an additional stylesheet for IE6 is very easy to do.
The user agent can be detected at the server level (that is, not a javascript or CSS hack) and the additional stylesheet can be loaded only when IE6 is being used, causing no additional issues with newer versions of IE or other browsers. Another option is to use IE's conditional statements, which are only supported by IE and will be seen as HTML comments by other browsers.
If you can't find an IE6 box, Microsoft offers a free VirtualPC disk image containing XP with IE6 (their VirtualPC client is free as well). The disk image can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...90-958f-4b64-b5f1-73d0a413c8ef&displaylang=en
and VirtualPC here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...22-6EB8-4A09-A7F7-F6C7A1F000B5&displaylang=en
Last edited:
Ugly Joe
New member
Hmm. Another option is to use Multiple IEs:
http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE
Only works with XP, though, and it appears it may not work properly if you already have IE7 installed.
http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE
Only works with XP, though, and it appears it may not work properly if you already have IE7 installed.
Lillymon
New member
There's also the more fundamental issue we've been talking about in the IRC channel. The design is completely fixed width, so on widescreen displays (like the 1680x1050 one I'm using right now) most of the space goes completely wasted. I'd wager less than half of a maximized browser window is being used at this resolution.
This also applies (though to a lesser extent) to the message board too. There are pretty big borders to the left and right, which seem like a waste. Frankly, this is pretty bad practice in web design. There's no way to tell what people will view your site on, so the design should scale well to fit any resolution, and this design simply doesn't scale at all.
This also applies (though to a lesser extent) to the message board too. There are pretty big borders to the left and right, which seem like a waste. Frankly, this is pretty bad practice in web design. There's no way to tell what people will view your site on, so the design should scale well to fit any resolution, and this design simply doesn't scale at all.
Ugly Joe
New member
That's a bit of a general statement and I disagree with it. The fixed vs liquid debate initially came about because people were designing fixed-width sites that required a resolution that was higher than some people had available. The page would not render properly (ie, it needed horizontal scroll bars) and this was a problem. The argument for liquid layout was that it would scale to smaller resolutions. It was about accessibility, not about aesthetic.
Now I see people arguing that every website should take up the entire browser window. I don't see why they need to. I can understand the "waste of space" argument, but I don't see why the webmaster should completely redo their design to satisfy that. If the content being delivered on a site is being delivered entirely as planned and is not causing any kind of accessibility problem for you and your wide resolution, where has the webmaster failed?
However, while I do disagree with the general statement, I do believe it applies to certain layouts. This includes ZD and ZMD's new layouts. The basic three-column layout adapts very easily to a fluid-width and, with as much content as ZD's front page has, it won't suffer from a "wide-content looks like no-content" problem. Forums in general should always be fluid-width as well, in my opinion, since there really isn't a lot of design aesthetic to a forum. It's all about placing buttons in convenient locations and getting as much content to the user as possible.
Gil-Galad
New member
Indeed it is. Thanks.
About the fixed vs liquid layouts, yes, I agree that a liquid layout would work better on this type of a site, as many times it appears as though the tabular data is "crammed in". I think you know what I mean.
The problem is, the designer I originally hired (who screwed me over) ported a piece of HTML I had written that was for a site with a fixed layout where a fixed layout is the right way to go. So its a fixed layout not by design but because of really not thinking ahead.
I'd really like to upgrade the layout, but I'm a bit burnt out atm. I've spent about 200+ hours of work to upgrade this site in the last 2 months. So I'm probably gonna take a month or so off from programming new stuff. That, and the liquid layout could really wait.
EDIT: oh yeah, if anyone wants to help me, wink wink, I won't stop you from coding the liquid layout and I'll integrate it into the site templates. It has to be no-tables though.
EDIT #2: And the forums layout is liquid. It looks very much wide enough in my 1920x1200 resolution and I wouldn't want it any wider, as it would make lines too long to read. The website's liquid layout would have to be the same, I'd think.
The problem is, the designer I originally hired (who screwed me over) ported a piece of HTML I had written that was for a site with a fixed layout where a fixed layout is the right way to go. So its a fixed layout not by design but because of really not thinking ahead.
I'd really like to upgrade the layout, but I'm a bit burnt out atm. I've spent about 200+ hours of work to upgrade this site in the last 2 months. So I'm probably gonna take a month or so off from programming new stuff. That, and the liquid layout could really wait.
EDIT: oh yeah, if anyone wants to help me, wink wink, I won't stop you from coding the liquid layout and I'll integrate it into the site templates. It has to be no-tables though.
EDIT #2: And the forums layout is liquid. It looks very much wide enough in my 1920x1200 resolution and I wouldn't want it any wider, as it would make lines too long to read. The website's liquid layout would have to be the same, I'd think.
SpaceTiger
New member
Sounds like it's deserved. Whatever the problems with the new layout, the site is in much better shape now.
Ugly Joe
New member
I can probably have the site converted to a liquid layout sometime next week. I already figured out the CSS changes needed to get the columns to sit where they need to and to have the middle column resize with the browser. I still need to tweak the CSS to get all the paddings and borders and gradients lined up properly. Seems entirely doable, though.
Alright, that'd be great!