FF8: PSX or PC?

No offense dude, but you need to READ. I haven't said that they can't be better than the actual systems. I said that emus will never be EXACTLY LIKE the system.

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> He's just showing an example of how an emulator wont look
> better than the real thing, or something like that.

What he's saying is that a game console is limited by it's hardware (whatever those limitations may be) wheras a PC, by it's very nature (being upgradeable, etc etc), is not.

Therefore a PC version of a PSX game could in theory look much nicer than the PSX version running on the console itself.

Now, as far as emulators go, what he is also saying is that the emulator is limited in some ways by the hardware it is emulating. Rules can be bent (like using filters such as hq2x to improve graphics, or resampling the audio) but still the emulator has to be able to EMULATE (mimick in other words) the original hardware, and is still bound by it's rules in some ways.

Very soon I will be obtaining my Phd in Emulation 101, so you will have to refer to me as Dr Ian from now on. :P


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For_Me.txt
</a></P>
 
> Very soon I will be obtaining my Phd in Emulation 101, so
> you will have to refer to me as Dr Ian from now on. :P

yes sir, Dr.
<img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

thanks for clearing that up.

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> No offense dude, but you need to READ. I haven't said that
> they can't be better than the actual systems. I said that
> emus will never be EXACTLY LIKE the system.

Guess I misunderstood you then. I stil dont see your point though. What does it matter whether its exactly like it or not? Its kinda like saying "its not grey like the real one". No, its not...so what. Ah well, its not important :)


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> Turn on 2xSaI, Bilinear filtering (the first one looks
> best), Alpha Multi Pass, Advanced Blending, put all that in
> 1024x768 (or higher), turn on Anti-aliasing in your control
> panel (not from the emu), and you'll never go back to your
> real PSX.

To avoid funky looking backgrounds and sprites you should not use 1024x768, but 1280x960 as it is the exact doubble of 640x480.

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> I said that
> emus will never be EXACTLY LIKE the system.

Again, that statement is incorrect in the case of 2D arcade systems and even some 3D arcade systems.

Properly-emulated tilemaps and sprites with the proper colour PROMs (which describes most of the 2D games supported by MAME) will provide pixel-perfect graphics. Furthermore, MAME's support for various sound cores such as the AY-3-8910, POKEY, and the YM2xxx and YM3xxx series of chips is sample-perfect in that the output of the sound cores perfectly matches the output of an actual chip.
 
> Now, as far as emulators go, what he is also saying is that
> Very soon I will be obtaining my Phd in Emulation 101, so
> you will have to refer to me as Dr Ian from now on. :P

But that'll be too confusing, I've already known a Dr. Ian for years on http://www.gscentral.com/vb/index.phpGSCentral</a>! <img src=smilies/laff.gif>

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> Rules can be bent (like using filters such as
> hq2x to improve graphics, or resampling the audio) but still
> the emulator has to be able to EMULATE (mimick in other
> words) the original hardware, and is still bound by it's
> rules in some ways.

Yet another example is how some NES emulators allow all 64 sprites to be shown on a single scanline, while the NES can only handle 8. While this works for a lot of games, some (the Mega Man series, IIRC) manage the 8 sprite per line limit in software. There was some discussion a while ago as to how an emulator could work around this...but I don't think a satisfactory conclusion was reached.

By the way, does anyone know if this was actually the issue with FF8, or is it a matter of imperfect emulation?

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> To avoid funky looking backgrounds and sprites you should
> not use 1024x768, but 1280x960 as it is the exact doubble of
> 640x480.

That's one thing I havent tried yet, I'll give it a shot whenever possible.

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Again, I still think I am right.

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> Again, I still think I am right.

Clearly, you are delusional and don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

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Oh, someone have a different opinion than mine ! He must be a fucktard ! /UMM

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> Oh, someone have a different opinion than mine ! He must be
> a fucktard ! /UMM

Oh, I refuse to listen to logic and many well-documented cases where it's perfectly possible to have pixel-perfect accuracy when emulating things! I must be right, and I shall refuse to listen to even the most clearly laid-out responses - especially those citing MAME - that try to suggest otherwise! Besides, I haven't even bothered to explain what sort of emulation I'm talking about - whether it's emulation on the gate level, which is obviously impossible, or whether it's emulation on a pixel-accuracy and sample-accuracy level, wherein it's perfectly possible! /Cornellius
 
Dude, is it so hard to take the fact that other people may have different opinion than you ?

UMM said: Clearly, you are delusional.

Which sort of reply have you expected with these sort of replies ? This is a message board, you can't expect anyone to agree with you. The fact that someone have a different opinion than you doesn't make that person a stupid person.

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Like I said on IRC, just to clarify...

You're correct if you mean that perfect emulation at a gate level is impossible, because that would be far to complex for any computer in the forseeable future to handle. Perfect emulation in the sense that all of the pixels are the exact same RGB value and the exact same position and the sound samples are the exact same levels at the exact same times for the exact same inputs on the equivalent original hardware is possible, and has been done on numerous occasions by MAME.

However, console emulation is different in that as opposed to arcade hardware where you only have, at most, around fifty games running on specific hardware, you have several hundred if not over a thousand. Invariably, you will have games that discover loopholes in the hardware, ways to push the hardware beyond its original specification, undocumented features in the hardware, glitches in the hardware, and so on. Therefore, yes, at first a console emulator will not be perfect, that's true. However, it's then the emulator author's duty to research these undocumented hardware features or hardware glitches, and implement them in the emulator.

This has not been done yet in many (if any) console emulators except for the very early consoles, simply because most of the authors are focused on quantity rather than quality. So you're right, as of yet there are no perfect GameBoy emulators, or Playstation emulators, or SNES emulators, or NES emulators, and so on. However, to say that it is not possible to be perfect is incorrect.

Anyway, sorry I was such a fucking dickwad towards you. <img src=smilies/cwm10.gif>

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> Very soon I will be obtaining my Phd in Emulation 101, so
> you will have to refer to me as Dr Ian from now on. :P
>
I think it's penis envy.

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