10th Birthday...

> Hey, ya'll should do something spiffy for the tenth
> aniiversery.

Hopefully someone can get a redesign and new system done by then.

it'd be nice.
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> Yea, too bad nobody has offered to do anything.

I'm waiting to see your work. Along with everybody else.
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> > Yea, too bad nobody has offered to do anything.
>
> I'm waiting to see your work. Along with everybody else.
>

Okay then, I'll do all the work on my own server, and I won't bother any of you with it until it is complete.
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> > Yea, too bad nobody has offered to do anything.
>
> I'm waiting to see your work. Along with everybody else.
>
Ooh, nothin' like competition to get one motivated. We have three people now.

"Let's get it on!" - Iron Chef
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> Ooh, nothin' like competition to get one motivated. We have
> three people now.

It would probably make more sense for everyone to work together. I also have a few cds of older archived emulation files I can put back online (removed when ztnet imposed some limits on us).
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Yeah, everybody think that something big will happen when we planned to do nothing. People will be word-less.

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> Yeah, everybody think that something big will happen when we
> planned to do nothing. People will be word-less.


actually, if you do nothing, I think everyone will think "figures"

sad, but true
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> I'm getting sick of the only comment being "I miss the
> standard ZD colors".

I'm still curious as to how you (or whoever) is going to go about organizing the navigation. I remember ZD used to have that horrendous sidebar on the right that would always (usually) be longer than the news updates. That was fixed a while ago, but I still have friends who can't seem to navigate the archives.

Of course, if that little search box in the corner actually works...
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> I'm still curious as to how you (or whoever) is going to go about organizing the navigation. I still have friends who can't seem to navigate the archives.

Finally, a good point! Thanks for bringing it up. I had to go into this sample install and turn off the 'hide categories without files', but here's basically some screencaps of what it would look like, using Olate.

http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-1.png

In this image, if you have Javascript enabled, you can pull down and expand one area of the side bar. It's not shown by default, so it keeps the clutter down. You can use the sidebar as a short-cut to different initial categories, as you can see.

http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-2.png

Now, if you don't have Javascript enabled, or if your browser isn't supported for some reason, you can click on the category header, and it'll take you to this page.

http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-3.png

Once you've picked a category, you'll come to a breakdown page. In this case, I've gone after "Emulators for Windows", then "Consoles". Now, I'm just following ZD's current filetree here -- but we could conceivably break it down further, to things like "Atari", "Nintendo", "Sega", "Sony", and "Other"... and then break it down to individual systems. Or, leave "Other" off, and leave those others as additional categories on this page.

What do you think would be better?

http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-4.png

After you get to your desired child category/system to emulate, you'd see a page like this. By default, it's in Alphabetical order. The default sort orders are listed, but I'm thinking of adding "Sort by Rating", as well. Yes, you can rate your favorite emulators.

> Of course, if that little search box in the corner actually works...

It works, most of the time. For some reason, SOME of the time, the keywords don't "connect". I'm keeping up with Olate updates to see what fixes come up. But, here's an example.

http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-5.png
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> I'm getting sick of the only comment being "I miss the
> standard ZD colors".

While I couldn't care less about the zd original colors (which were poorly chosen IMO), the current style makes it look like your generic default theme for a system ;P

That aside, 'mI really looking forward this. Good work.

As for few touchps, how about a line with the news poster, perhaps with ye old icons of yore ;)

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> While I couldn't care less about the zd original colors
> (which were poorly chosen IMO), the current style makes it
> look like your generic default theme for a system ;P

I think having clean, unassuming colors is a -good- thing. But, it's all templated/CSS, so it can all change pretty easily. I'm just trying to find a nice balance for a default...

> As for few touchps, how about a line with the news poster,
> perhaps with ye old icons of yore ;)

I don't believe the admin system allows for user details like that by default. Maybe it could be added; but technically what you're seeing is a 'last update' page, rather than a news page. Those are active download links, with the comments applied to the files. It's different from a news/blog like system, which links to the real download page.

I'm not sure which system is better.
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> Finally, a good point! Thanks for bringing it up.

No problem <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

> http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-1.png

> In this image, if you have Javascript enabled, you can pull
> down and expand one area of the side bar. It's not shown by
> default, so it keeps the clutter down. You can use the
> sidebar as a short-cut to different initial categories, as
> you can see.

So it's like an expandable javascript menu, only all gussied up with CSS? As long as it doesn't look like crap (which it doesn't) and it works flawlessly in most browsers (does it?) than I'd say it's a good way of doing things.

> http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-2.png

> Now, if you don't have Javascript enabled, or if your
> browser isn't supported for some reason, you can click on
> the category header, and it'll take you to this page.

Is there a way of getting to this page if you have Javascript enabled? It'd be useful to be able to send someone a link to any node in the tree, not just the leaves.

> http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-3.png

I like pages like this <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif> The problem I have with it is that there is not ample "breadcrumbing" to see where you are. I mean, what are these the child categories of?

> Now, I'm just following ZD's current
> filetree here -- but we could conceivably break it down
> further, to things like "Atari", "Nintendo", "Sega", "Sony",
> and "Other"... and then break it down to individual systems.
> Or, leave "Other" off, and leave those others as additional
> categories on this page.

> What do you think would be better?

I think the Platform (osx, win, *nix, etc) -> Type (console, computer, arcade, etc) -> System (nes, snes, genesis, etc) system is good enough, so long as each section has an "other" category. Some systems only have one emulator, so in cases like that I'd guess more people would download it on a whim from some "other" page rather than people who are looking for an emulator for some obscure dead PC. Gotta have "other" sections to keep the categories at a reasonable size.

Of course, there's also the tech docs and hacks and all that, which will need their own hierarchy. I'd be willing to take a stab at that, but not right now.

> http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-4.png

Again, it needs better breadcrumbing. "Super NES -> Bsnes" only tells me that it's an snes emulator. It doesn't tell me what OS it's for.

> > Of course, if that little search box in the corner
> actually works...

> It works, most of the time. For some reason, SOME of the
> time, the keywords don't "connect". I'm keeping up with
> Olate updates to see what fixes come up. But, here's an
> example.

> http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-5.png

Ah, works for me. I like to browse sites more than searching them (as long as the navigation makes sense), so I don't know how much I'd use it. I'm sure I'm in the minority, though, so be sure to use whatever fixes get released.
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> So it's like an expandable javascript menu, only all gussied
> up with CSS? As long as it doesn't look like crap (which it
> doesn't) and it works flawlessly in most browsers (does it?)
> than I'd say it's a good way of doing things.

Thanks. I've tested it in Firefox and IE7, and it works fine in both. I have to admit, I need to try it in Opera (Gotta re-download it again) and in a 'webkit' or KTHML browser, like Konqueror or Safari. I've verified the site as XHTML Strict, and the CSS is -fairly- clean (and getting cleaner as I go through it), but you never know...

Edit: I installed Konqueror 3.5.2 on Xubuntu 6.06, and the site looks dandy. There are a couple of minor glitches, mostly with the RSS icon in the corner, but I'll live with that - because everything else seems to be working just fine.

> Is there a way of getting to this page if you have
> Javascript enabled? It'd be useful to be able to send
> someone a link to any node in the tree, not just the leaves.

Oh, yeah. Just click on the category name instead of the drop arrow.

> > http://www.gabrielwalker.com/images/tzofar-3.png
>
> I like pages like this The problem I have with it is that
> there is not ample "breadcrumbing" to see where you are. I
> mean, what are these the child categories of?

Good point. I'll have to check the setup to see if I can find the 'breadcrumb' settings. The template seems to have some support for it, I just have to see what mod to put in to enable it. (If it's not in the admin section.)

Thanks for bringing it up.

> I think the Platform (osx, win, *nix, etc) -> Type (console,
> computer, arcade, etc) -> System (nes, snes, genesis, etc)
> system is good enough, so long as each section has an
> "other" category.

I was experimenting between having "Other", or just leaving the misc. files in the category itself. So, misc in "Other", or in "Console"?
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> I was experimenting between having "Other", or just leaving
> the misc. files in the category itself. So, misc in "Other",
> or in "Console"?

I think each section should have an "Other".

Like, here are all the major and minor OSes, and here are some other, really really bizzare ones (like digital camera OSes or something).

Then, here are the major and minor types of things that get emulated, and here are some really really bizzare ones (like, i dunno, that speak-and-spell one).

Then, here are the major and minor Systems, and here are some really bizzare ones (like the Mattel Aquarius or something).

The point is to not have any leaf nodes containing only one or two emulators -- it would just clutter up the navigation.

On the other extreme, you have the big categories, like Windows -> Console -> NES. The "sort by ranking" option would really come in handy there. I really like the way ZD has it organized now, with the "best / good / crap" sections. Assuming the ranking system works, that should happen naturally (although maybe with a bit of a kickstart, like +10 to FCEU, +2 to Nesticle, +0 to BasicNES, etc).
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WHY haven't I've seen that before? WHY isn't that online and all these volunteers adding the entire zd archive to it?
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> WHY haven't I've seen that before? WHY isn't that online
> and all these volunteers adding the entire zd archive to it?

Technically, you have. It's Olate - the same thing ZD-concept used. But right now it's online, on my personal server, while I worked out the CSS and template mods.

I didn't want to share out the URL until I got some feedback.

I take it you're approving of it?
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