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pipes
09-24-2004, 12:13 AM
Is this right? 87? This thing is updated everyday. There is no way its 87! More like 87000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000001.

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MooglyGuy
09-24-2004, 01:10 AM
> Is this right? 87? This thing is updated everyday. There
> is no way its 87! More like 870000....001.

Perhaps you don't grasp the concept of intermediate updates, but I'll spell it out for you:

As more and more people gain interest in MAME, a proportional number of people gain interest in developing for MAME. These people submit their code to the maintainer, who then merges their code into the source tree (if it passes muster). People became tired of waiting up to two months for a release, and clamored for more frequent updates. Therefore, as weekly there are not necessarily enough submissions to qualify for a full release (but may still be of interest to people working on particular drivers), a source-only intermediate update is now released in the form of a DIFF file. Anyone wishing to have a bleeding-edge version of MAME can download the patch, download the latest fully-qualified release's source code, apply the patch, and compile his own. However, these intermediate (or 'update' patches, hence the un nomenclature, where n is the release number) patches are unsupported by both the MAME Testing Project (http://www.mametesters.org ), and neither are the multitude of MAME derivatives that choose to release binaries of the intermediate source tree. Approximately once a month, all of the intermediate patches are reviewed one last time, then merged into the source tree for a fully binary and source release, which then increments the main version number by one.

Does this clear things up?

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Narvick
09-24-2004, 02:06 AM
I agree, MAME is updated way too often. It was okay until the intermediate updates. I'm fairly sure MAME variant authors and news sites are aggravated by it. I know we are.

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Lillymon
09-24-2004, 02:19 AM
> I agree, MAME is updated way too often. It was okay until
> the intermediate updates. I'm fairly sure MAME variant
> authors and news sites are aggravated by it. I know we are.

If we were talking about full releases, I'd agree. But the source-only update releases are different. Aside from the whatsnew.txt, they're pretty much the same as CVS code from various SourceForge projects.

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MooglyGuy
09-24-2004, 02:45 AM
> I agree, MAME is updated way too often. It was okay until
> the intermediate updates. I'm fairly sure MAME variant
> authors and news sites are aggravated by it. I know we are.

Then don't post about it, jackass. Those of us who develop for MAME will continue to be happy that we don't have to deal with month-long gaps where we can't see what's being worked on so we don't know what to work on.

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pipes
09-24-2004, 11:32 PM
cool <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

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Narvick
09-25-2004, 03:25 AM
If it's a release, we're going to post about it. Don't get all self-righteous because you contribute to MAME like you did last time.

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MooglyGuy
09-25-2004, 04:53 PM
> If it's a release, we're going to post about it.

Then don't complain about there being too many releases.

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The 9th Sage
09-26-2004, 02:28 AM
> > If it's a release, we're going to post about it.
>
> Then don't complain about there being too many releases.

Why are staffers of the site fighting amongst themselves?

Er, sorry, I was thinking that out loud. :P


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pipes
09-26-2004, 03:59 AM
> Why are staffers of the site fighting amongst themselves?

They are not fighting. This is how the work gets done.<img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

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SpaceTiger
09-26-2004, 08:05 PM
> I agree, MAME is updated way too often. It was okay until
> the intermediate updates. I'm fairly sure MAME variant
> authors and news sites are aggravated by it. I know we are.

Uh...why are you complaining about the active development of an emulator?

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MooglyGuy
09-26-2004, 09:28 PM
> Uh...why are you complaining about the active development of
> an emulator?

I was wondering the same thing.

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Cornellius
09-26-2004, 09:34 PM
Oh come on, EVERY releases are important. It's not because you don't care about a version that everyone else don't. It's a emulation-news site, you HAVE to post all of them.


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Cornellius
09-26-2004, 09:35 PM
Ditto. At least the emulator is active and doing well.

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icenine0
09-27-2004, 05:31 AM
You develop for MAME!? Get Boogie Wings working and I'll give you twenty bucks. <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

> Then don't post about it, jackass. Those of us who develop
> for MAME will continue to be happy that we don't have to
> deal with month-long gaps where we can't see what's being
> worked on so we don't know what to work on.

<P ID="signature">The more often you fail, the sweeter the taste of success!</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by icenine0 on 09/27/04 01:31 AM.</FONT></P>

MooglyGuy
09-27-2004, 11:34 AM
> You develop for MAME!? Get Boogie Wings working and I'll
> give you twenty bucks.

I work on crap trivia games from the mid 80's, I'm certainly no guru at breaking encryption. Boogie Wings and other early to mid 90's Data East games run on encrypted CPUs, and nobody has any idea how to emulate 'em. <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

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mFC
09-27-2004, 03:40 PM
gonna have to agree with narvick on this one.
i love mame, i love that its actively developed. what i dont love however, is having to do about 5 separate updates every few days. my workload is usually enough as it is, i just think that sometimes its a little silly to put out a source diff everytime you touch the source it seems.

Chris

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SpaceTiger
09-27-2004, 06:32 PM
> gonna have to agree with narvick on this one.
> i love mame, i love that its actively developed. what i
> dont love however, is having to do about 5 separate updates
> every few days.

It sounds to me like you're complaining about site policy, not MAME. This is somewhat analogous to a doctor complaining about the frequency with which they receive vaccines for their patients (so much work!). We seem to be having trouble seeing the forest for the trees here.

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MooglyGuy
09-27-2004, 07:10 PM
> It sounds to me like you're complaining about site policy,
> not MAME. This is somewhat analogous to a doctor
> complaining about the frequency with which they receive
> vaccines for their patients (so much work!). We seem to be
> having trouble seeing the forest for the trees here.

We also seem to not be realizing that an update once per week is hardly unreasonable. If people did their goddamn jobs and didn't let news pile up, it'd be a lot easier to update.


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mFC
09-27-2004, 08:06 PM
<img src=smilies/laff.gif>

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SpaceTiger
09-27-2004, 09:30 PM
> If people did their goddamn
> jobs and didn't let news pile up, it'd be a lot easier to
> update.

I think Narvick and mFC do a great job posting. I see no reason to complain about that either.

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Fla Flash
09-27-2004, 10:31 PM
I agree with Narvick and mFC. And your last comment, Space Tiger.
Some of these freaking updates are like "Joe Goes To Work, v1.0"
What's new
*Joe Gets Out Of Bed
*Joe Puts on Pants

There is still a glitch in "Joe Puts on Tie", but we'll have that fixed soon.

Next day v1.01 is out
What's new
*Improved Joe's appearance as he gets out of bed
*Changed color of Joe's Pants
*Joe now puts on tie
There's still a glitch in starting the car, but we're working on it.

You get the idea.
Some of the changes are so minor it's almost a crime to report 'em.

And Moogle, if you wanna really do some Mame development, how about a fucking version that doesn't need updating?

In the meantime quit being so damned arrogant about the whole thing.
And don't criticize the two hardest working staffers here.
I may be no one to talk, but when was the last time you posted anything?

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Cornellius
09-28-2004, 03:12 AM
Dude, calm down. You missed the point. As a NEWS-emulation site, we HAVE TO post about every change on emus. If you don't care about the release, fine, but maybe someone is happy with those release even if they're minor releases.

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MooglyGuy
09-28-2004, 03:16 AM
> I may be no one to
> talk, but when was the last time you posted anything?

You have a hurricane to deal with, I have a full course load in college to deal with. I'd love to be paid to update the site instead of have my ass rot away in some backwoods hillbilly college, but sadly, that isn't going to happen. That being the case, I'll try to update when I can, which will not be until at least this weekend.

Just so you know, I can understand the pain that all of the MAME updates can cause. Do you think it was fun for me back when I updated on a regular basis, when those updates came through at seven megs a pop? It wasn't, but the fact of the matter is that I knew I had two choices: I could either update them, or I could not update them, and I chose to update them for the good of the community. This boils down to the fact that I don't feel that it's an emulation site's position to tell emulator authors to make less updates any more than it's an emulator author's position to tell an emulation site to make more updates. However, if you want my advice (and obviously nobody does), I would simply go without posting any binaries for the intermediate updates. The update patches are only meant to be for people who are actually developing the project but are not on the mailing list, and as such any binaries can be considered unofficial. It will save you massive bandwidth not having to upload seven megs over and over again except for once a month when the official updates come out, and then maybe a couple hundred kilobytes a week when the source patches come out.

However, this ultimately boils down to what Yoda once said. "No! Post... or post not. There is no try."

Narvick
09-28-2004, 03:51 AM
> We also seem to not be realizing that an update once per
> week is hardly unreasonable. If people did their goddamn
> jobs and didn't let news pile up, it'd be a lot easier to
> update.

Wow, that's a great idea. Sounds like what I've been saying for months now.

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Lillymon
09-28-2004, 11:11 AM
> And Moogle, if you wanna really do some Mame development,
> how about a fucking version that doesn't need updating?

What the hell are you talking about? 'A version of MAME that doesn't need updating'? MAME is a constant work in progress that is always being updated. I like the update versions so I can see how things are progressing. People complained about infrequent updates, so Haze brings out the update versions, and now you're complaining about frequent updates!

This whole thing baffles me seeing as how everyone who updated this site is an unpaid volunteer doing so because they want to. Complaining about having to post about frequent emulator releases is like going to work at homeless shelter and complaining about how many bums you're having ladle soup out to.

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Fla Flash
09-28-2004, 11:47 AM
I was wondering when you were going to comment on this.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Complaining about having to post about frequent emulator releases is like going to work at homeless shelter and complaining about how many bums you're having ladle soup out to.

<hr></blockquote>

Kind of like complaining about an author who wants to charge for an emulator?

At anyrate I don't think anyone's really complaining. The updates are posted, aren't they?



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Lillymon
09-28-2004, 01:34 PM
> I was wondering when you were going to comment on this.

I've found most topics have my views raised without my intervention being necessary recently. This one was an exception since I've been playing a lot of SimCity 3000 recently and wanted to use that phrase.

> Kind of like complaining about an author who wants to charge for
> an emulator?

Well they're not exactly the same, and I've mostly stopped complaining (Martin Korth finally got the right idea to stop people pirating his emulators and other commercial emulators have been overtaken by now). I've moved onto X-Chat (http://www.xchat.org/), where the author is thought to be violating the GPL.

> At anyrate I don't think anyone's really complaining. The updates
> are posted, aren't they?

Yes, but it seems people aren't appricating what Haze is doing. I don't think there's any possible reason to complain about MAME getting updates once a week rather than once a month. I end up 'having' to update my ROM sets just as news posters end up 'having' to post. It's a bit more work for everyone, but I'd rather have that than the all of the update releases going 'MAMEdev only' and regular users only getting the more infrequent regular releases.

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Fla Flash
09-28-2004, 04:35 PM
That is actually a very good idea.<img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

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SirDaShadow
09-30-2004, 08:34 AM
> That is actually a very good idea.
>
You know what's funny? While you all keep wasting time replying to this, Mame87u1 was released <img src=smilies/laff.gif>

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