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Danoz
10-10-2006, 06:55 AM
North Korea. Most of the country is a wasteland, and the north doesn't consider all its people "citizens". Gaining "citizenship" to one of the major cities, namely, Pyongyang, ensured the people living there relative means of survival (and even theatres, art, music etc)... most chilling of these are probably the mass games, where stunning displays of acrobatics and "human pixels" are used to create massive tributes to North Korea and the Great (or dear) Leader. Meanwhile, the people starve. Prison camps (the Kwan Li So) are scattered throughout the nation where one can be punished for something as simple as whispers of South Korean songs or rumors or practicing Christianity. Pyongyang, for many years, was supposed to be this prime example of “communism working” (hence the massive expensive theatrical undertakings).But, even those in the comfort of Pyongyang citizenship are now starving, and there won’t be an insurrection… why? Because the North Korean government has successfully convinced, and brainwashed its people into believing that the United States is personally responsible for all their suffering. They organize rallies reminiscent of an Orwellian “hate week”, and in their isolation the children are given the image of George Bush and America as symbols of evil and hatred—while they conversely raise their leader to God-like status.

Here’s the point. Sanctions are used as a tool, not necessarily to “squeeze the nobility”, but to pressure the masses into revolution. When you cut funding to an oppressive dictator, the first (also arguably the most illogical) action is to increase military expenditures and let the people starve. The propaganda of death and starvation in the streets is then used as a tool of the oppressor, while slowly (but surely) the internal support for the government starts to waver and the logic is that the government will also become crippled by it, and be forced to abandon its programs in question. In this military regime, I don’t think it’s going to change the hearts and minds of the people whose hatred has been carefully crafted for over half a century. If China goes through with serious sanctions, North Korea will probably be pressured to take further rash action—but we’re in a situation where inaction inevitably gives a pass to other nations with the same ambitions. Many are suggesting a “domino effect” will occur if the UN Security Council fails to respond accordingly. Since the actions of this entire nation are decided at the whim of a man whose psychological soundness is at best questionable, it’s fair to say we aren’t dealing with a “rational actor” by any stretch. When the United States imposed sanctions on Cuba, they had the support of the Soviet Union and other communist regimes to run to; our best chance is the support of China, whose rhetoric and threats of sanctions needs to be strong enough to get the DPRK back into the six party talks. We should also stress our strong alliances with South Korea and Japan, and make very public, very visible statements of these alliances (if you all remember the US deployment of the USS Shiloh (CG-67) with anti-ballistic missile capability to Japanese shores back in August). The uniting of Japan and China over this issue is another very good sign. I’m optimistic that Kim Jong Il wanted attention from the world, even if that attention came with a price tag of losing support from its only major trade partners. If anything, we should be glad that North Korea took an action that forces China out of this lukewarm stance on the subject.
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GeminiMan
10-10-2006, 09:57 PM
Excellent commentary.

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Porchmonkey
10-10-2006, 10:29 PM
We've seen how good many years of sanctions have influenced regime change in Cuba haven't we? Oh wait they haven't. Just caused over 30 years of suffering for the people. Sanctions don't work, and all this nuke will do for North Korea is get them more money for the US and other countries.
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GeminiMan
10-11-2006, 05:26 AM
If China actually follows through with sanctions and cuts off the North Korean's food supply, North Korea is going to have a huge problem on their hands.

Cuba is more independent and still has trading partners (just not the US), but North Korea is now in a situation where every world power wants to see them disarmed. You can't really compare the two so easily.

Our top priority should now be to make sure that no nuclear devices leave the country, seeing as NK has a reputation for selling weapons to anyone who is willing to pay the price.
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shawn
10-11-2006, 10:12 AM
> If China actually follows through with sanctions and cuts
> off the North Korean's food supply, North Korea is going to
> have a huge problem on their hands.

They like every country are dependent on others, good point.

> Cuba is more independent and still has trading partners
> (just not the US), but North Korea is now in a situation
> where every world power wants to see them disarmed. You
> can't really compare the two so easily.

That is correct and Cuba is more of a defensive than an offensive country at this time or at least seems that way to me.

> Our top priority should now be to make sure that no nuclear
> devices leave the country, seeing as NK has a reputation for
> selling weapons to anyone who is willing to pay the price.

Well that should be the rule with all countries including our own and yes it should be our main goal.
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Insomnia DMX
10-14-2006, 02:55 AM
> Children are given the image of George Bush and America as
> symbols of evil and hatred�while they conversely raise their
> leader to God-like status.

Woah, it's the other way around in America, though to a much lesser extent, but you'd be surprised... I know a kid who got kicked out of a private middle school for not supporting Bush.

Although I must agree, I don't think they should have nukes. I wouldn't trust them having any, because who knows who they'd give them to. On the other hand, I can kinda understand thier reasoning; they've said that they want to have them for persuading countries to not attack. I think they're definately going about it in the wrong way though, and actually putting attention on themselves. Maybe they're the next country in the "Axis of Evil" the US is going to invade. I can only hope not.

The scenario seems to be the same as the US-Iraq war that Bush started. A little bit different, like we are much more sure that the other country has WMD's, and the US is pissed because of them, not terrorists, so the blame can instantly be placed. But still, I'm afraid the same shit's gonna happen. We can only hope that these people have enough sense not to start another war with each other... That is something we don't need.
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Kitsune Sniper
10-14-2006, 02:50 PM
> Woah, it's the other way around in America, though to a much
> lesser extent, but you'd be surprised... I know a kid who
> got kicked out of a private middle school for not supporting
> Bush.

God, I hope he sued the school.

> Although I must agree, I don't think they should have nukes.
> I wouldn't trust them having any, because who knows who
> they'd give them to.

I don't think NK would sell them to anyone, or even use them; the largest concern for many politicians is that there may be an accident and the area would become the next Chernobyl.
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Cornellius
10-14-2006, 09:53 PM
I find it funny that the USA want to santion the North Korea because they did a successful nuclear test when god only knows how many test the USA did since the world war. Hypocrisy.
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GeminiMan
10-15-2006, 03:54 AM
> I find it funny that the USA want to santion the North Korea
> because they did a successful nuclear test when god only
> knows how many test the USA did since the world war.
> Hypocrisy.

I find it funny that you single out the United States when the UN Security Council voted unanimously to impose sanctions on North Korea.

That's not to say that the United States or any other country should have nuclear weapons, but the Cold War is over and nobody really wants to see more weapons being made, especially by a totalitarian dictatorship that is run by someone like Kim Jong Il.
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Porchmonkey
10-15-2006, 07:46 AM
Can't disagree with you there. Its scary to think an idiot like Bush has the power to end civilization.

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Danoz
10-15-2006, 08:45 PM
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Danoz
10-15-2006, 08:47 PM
> I don't think NK would sell them to anyone, or even use
> them; the largest concern for many politicians is that there
> may be an accident and the area would become the next
> Chernobyl.

I think it's irresponsible to assume North Korea is a rational actor and that pure nuclear deterence is enough to prevent a man like Kim Jong Il from commiting suicide and taking out a nation or two with him.
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JadussD
10-16-2006, 03:59 PM
> North Korea. Most of the country is a wasteland, and the
> north doesn't consider all its people "citizens".

Actually, the North Koreans are quite nice people. It's really no big deal.
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JadussD
10-16-2006, 07:31 PM
> North Korea. Most of the country is a wasteland, and the
> north doesn't consider all its people "citizens".

This is North Korea:

[North Koreans folick about in a bountiful field, cut off from the rest of the bad, bad world. Honey flows from geysers in the earth. Man and woman, unclothed and unashamed, gleefully eat of all of the bountiful fruit in this garden. Kim Jong Il, benevolent ruler of North Korea, prepares his next statement to the bad, bad outside people.]

Kim Jong Il: General Happyflower, did you go into the negaverse and get the footage of the gas chambers?

General Happyflower: Yes, we've got it.

Kim Jong Il: Good. Now, I'm going to shake the earth outside of North Korea with the power of my mind. They're going to think its a nuclear test.

General Happyflower: Hehehehe...

Kim Jong Il: Have you given the people their daily supply of caviar?

General Happyflower: Why yes, and I gave them each a goose which lays eggs. All is well.

Kim Jong Il: Very good, very good. Hehehehe...Let me call Condoleeza Rice now. [Picks up phone and waits a minute]...Hi, Condi?

Condoleeza Rice: Yes?

Kim Jong Il: I want you to send this message to Paul Wolfowitz: I AM GAYDOLF SHITLER, SWASTIKAER OF ALL J00Z.

Condoleeza Rice: OMG!@#!#!@11111!!!
<P ID="signature"></P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by JadussD on 10/16/06 02:34 PM.</FONT></P>