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Skip Freethrow
09-06-2006, 10:57 PM
America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a piece of shit.
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thegodofhellfire
09-06-2006, 11:20 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.

All things considered, you do better than most. I'm a grizzled old leftie and even I can tell you that.
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Leldorion
09-06-2006, 11:24 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.
>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/Leldorion/patriotic.jpg</img>
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Ugly Joe
09-06-2006, 11:29 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.

Yep. Certainly no freedom in being able to call the president of the United States a piece of shit. No freedom at all.
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soniczip
09-06-2006, 11:41 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms.

Well, It's no wonder that you were arrested by the Wistapo this morning!!
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king killa
09-07-2006, 03:33 AM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.
>

Let me guess, you won't reply to this thread because it is flame bait?
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CEpeep
09-07-2006, 03:34 AM
> Let me guess, you won't reply to this thread because it is
> flame bait?

He really doesn't feel like responding to a flame bait thread.
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SpaceTiger
09-07-2006, 07:47 AM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.

1. America rules.
2. We do have freedoms, we just have to keep them secret from the terrorists.
3. A raw pile of fresh feces takes on a far more stoic demeanor than our current Commander-in-Chief.
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JadussD
09-07-2006, 10:07 AM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.
>

Thanks to dumbass Americans' continuing war against reality, we now live in a police state. Yep, between the terrorism scare and the methamphetamine scare, Americans are easily controlled by fear. Oh, you probably didn't notice it yet. Unless you tried to buy anything that could even conceivably be used to make Methamphetamine, then you get your purchases tracked by the DEA. People, meth use is down from 10 years ago.I bet that fact wasn't part of your media-created view of reality! Why would they try to create a meth scare? Because these are power-minded people, and power-minded people do things like lie to gain more power. This is a hype. This is a power grab. Form a false view of reality, suffer the consequences.

"Free" country, hahahahaha...

I bet y'all think all people are created equal, hehehe. Well, us people who aren't created equal, and are in fact smarter than most y'all, see things a little bit differently. Have fun, you're setting yourselves up for a heap of trouble. Hope that new oil they found in the Gulf sustains y'all for a year or two. Hope your government isn't full of corrupt cronies, and I hope the descent into selfishness and an illusory view of reality which caused all this in the first place magically disappears, before every corporation goes Enron, tap water smells like benzene, and the US vastly overestimate's its international power and makes a big mistake that cripples its economy!
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Kitsune Sniper
09-07-2006, 04:11 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.

GRINGOS ARE AWESOME!!!!1111
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Danoz
09-07-2006, 07:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Thanks to dumbass Americans' continuing war against reality, we now live in a police state.

<hr></blockquote>

If you credulously use words like “police state” when describing the United States, you’re taking away from perfect examples of real police states in the international scene. North Korea is a police state, where even singing a South Korean song or whispers from a neighbor can land you in a prison camp (which makes US maximum security prisons look the Hilton).

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Yep, between the terrorism scare and the methamphetamine scare, Americans are easily controlled by fear.

<hr></blockquote>

Just Americans? People are easily controlled by fear, and have been throughout history. Before international terrorism was the #1 issue in America, and your claim of a “methamphetamine scare”, American citizens raised during the Cold War were thoroughly convinced that a nuclear attack was imminent, and participated in OCD run drills with steel bomb helmets in fetal positions. Whether or not you argue this was government induced fear to gain the collective support of the masses, the modern response to international terrorism is hardly atypical.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Oh, you probably didn't notice it yet. Unless you tried to buy anything that could even conceivably be used to make Methamphetamine, then you get your purchases tracked by the DEA. People, meth use is down from 10 years ago.I bet that fact wasn't part of your media-created view of reality! Why would they try to create a meth scare? Because these are power-minded people, and power-minded people do things like lie to gain more power. This is a hype. This is a power grab. Form a false view of reality, suffer the consequences.

<hr></blockquote>

No offense, but there are simply safeguards in place to make sure a person intent on illegally producing and/or consuming/distributing methamphetamines has a hard time doing so. Who cares if your purchases are tracked down? That, in itself, will never be a punishable offense… so as long as you aren’t using the purchased materials irresponsibly, why would you care?

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

"Free" country, hahahahaha...

I bet y'all think all people are created equal, hehehe. Well, us people who aren't created equal, and are in fact smarter than most y'all, see things a little bit differently. Have fun, you're setting yourselves up for a heap of trouble. Hope that new oil they found in the Gulf sustains y'all for a year or two. Hope your government isn't full of corrupt cronies, and I hope the descent into selfishness and an illusory view of reality which caused all this in the first place magically disappears, before every corporation goes Enron, tap water smells like benzene, and the US vastly overestimate's its international power and makes a big mistake that cripples its economy!

<hr></blockquote>

Clearly you hope all of those things. Though, this entire last paragraph doesn’t really seem to follow your concerns about terrorism and methamphetamines… I find your posts interesting JadussD, but what is your point?
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Danoz
09-07-2006, 07:32 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.

Riviting. We have a bland, unsupported opinion, followed by a wholly incorrect statement with no evidence, and a mundane verbal attack. Your grammar, however, was excellent... I applaud you. Generally a post of this nature would lack the capitalization and punctuation yours does.
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Vampire hunter D
09-07-2006, 10:03 PM
> > America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> > piece of shit.
>
> GRINGOS ARE AWESOME!!!!1111

No, MATA LOS GRINGOS! MATELOS TODO!!
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Cornellius
09-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Well, I do not wish to start a flame war or anything, and I'm not targetting anyone, but as a Canadian, I do think that the Americans think they're the king of the world. Take that war for instance. Why go there ? Just let these fanatics kill themselves, no need for American soldiers there. Why do they full that they must resolve every conflicts in the world ?
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http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/3997/poker27ma.jpg</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Cornellius on 09/07/06 05:19 PM.</FONT></P>

MonsieurSirhan
09-07-2006, 10:25 PM
> GRINGOS ARE AWESOME!!!!1111
>

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CEpeep
09-07-2006, 10:34 PM
Does anybody still have the image that was made after that post? It was a guy wearing a sombrero.
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Danoz
09-07-2006, 11:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Well, I do not wish to start a flame war or anything, and I'm not targetting anyone, but as a Canadian, I do think that the Americans think they're the king of the world.

<hr></blockquote>

The simple truth is that Americans believe themselves to be the king of the world, because America is (metaphorically) the king of the world. Politically, economically, and more profoundly militarily—the U.S. is undeniably the most powerful nation with the most influence and ties to the world. Globalization both economic and cultural begins with the United States. We are the “hegemon”, if you will.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Take that war for instance. Why go there ? Just let these fanatics kill themselves, no need for American soldiers there. Why do they full that they must resolve every conflicts in the world?

<hr></blockquote>

It seems to be the perception that with certain power brings certain responsibility. Your statement gives an implication that they’re “all” fanatics, which we know is not the case. I, along with many others, believe in the power and goodness of democracy. The Iraq war prime example of where the application of that belief, though good natured, was both rushed and authorized on false pretenses. Is issue now is no longer about justifying the initial invasion, but choosing the best possible action for both their future and ours.
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MonsieurSirhan
09-07-2006, 11:40 PM
> Does anybody still have the image that was made after that
> post? It was a guy wearing a sombrero.

I did a forum search, but the image seems to have been removed already by the hosting service.

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maq112k2
09-08-2006, 01:17 AM
> application of that belief, though good natured, was both
> rushed and authorized on false pretenses. Is issue now is no
> longer about justifying the initial invasion, but choosing
> the best possible action for both their future and ours.

Bravo. Best way to put it. Although I can't help but believe that the 'false pretenses' of the war were cherry picked on purpose. Granted, I'm a tin-foil hat person when it comes to this stuff. Honesty and politics never go together.
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JadussD
09-08-2006, 02:15 AM
> Clearly you hope all of those things. Though, this entire
> last paragraph doesn’t really seem to follow your concerns
> about terrorism and methamphetamines… I find your posts
> interesting JadussD, but what is your point?

My point is that America is going to collapse into an authoritarian government due to a deterioration in the core values which sustain it, resulting on one hand in fatalism, selfishness, and ignorance on the part of voters, and more importantly, in the people who are elected to run this country.

My point is that our economy is based on producing excessive plastic crap using finite natural resources and convincing people to buy it, and that conspicuous consumption is unsustainable.

My point is that every great way of life rises at some point, and falls at some point, and that this is cyclical and shows up throughout history. The problem is less Bush, more like the fact that when there's a hurricane, the guy who's running FEMA is incompetent AND (this is pretty critical): thugs with AK-47s are going roving about, acting like they just swept into New Orleans and they run the place. That wasn't even happening in Indonesia after the tsunami; even the Indonesian rebels around Sumatra, for all their reputation of brutal guerilla warfare, horrific massacres, and general skullduggery, know that when their entire fucking city just got owned by mother nature, that its not the appropriate time to break out the automatic weaponry.

America is on a decline because of its values; the constant, obscene displays of looting that occured in New Orleans has as much to do with selfishness and materialism being thrust at Americans by advertisers as it does poverty and the desperation of the situation. Americans are now conditioned to use wealth to surround themselves in their own purchased version of reality, being conditioned to believe that they can turn his reality into anything they can afford, as long as they have the money. In the same way, they are manipulated by the media, who inject profitable values into society through venues like talk radio by, for instance, providing a left-wing opinion, a right-wing opinion, as if the listener should just pick the one he likes best. Thus, the tendency of large masses of people to act in a more or less predictable manner allows the media to maintain its grip on ideas, dividing Americans into Republicans and Democrats. The truth is not sought out. Issues which can be decided by the determination of truth value, such as the existence of global warming (it exists, we're contributing to it, and its a grave problem looming in our near future) become a matter of opinion, as the media creates content by finding someone who's willing to distort the facts and tell people who don't want to believe it exists what they want to hear, in order to CREATE debate on the issue. The post-modern disease is one in which people are made to form their own reality, to redefine what they are instead of merely being who they are, and this drives people away from each other. Human beings become islands who can't even relate to themselves, let alone have non-superficial friendships, loving marriages, or kids who don't correctly think their parents are totally full of shit.

I could go on and on demonstrating how America is corrupting itself, entertaining itself to death, paving the way for its demise. No one's orchestrating it, it comes from within, and it feeds on itself until something stops it. It's a cycle: Crowd takes over, Crowd has democracy. Crowd gets dominated by manipulators. Manipulators corrupt crowd. Society loses any sense of direction, and eventually, things go to hell and you end up with a dictatorship, an empire, or as a Chinese province.
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pipes
09-08-2006, 03:48 AM
> Does anybody still have the image that was made after that
> post? It was a guy wearing a sombrero.

:P
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Kitsune Sniper
09-08-2006, 03:54 AM
> Does anybody still have the image that was made after that
> post? It was a guy wearing a sombrero.

Man, I found the original of that image, and saved it to my hard drive. I also made an avatar for LJ, I'm curious as to why it's not on my site, though. Anyway. Here.
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CEpeep
09-08-2006, 04:37 AM
> :P

Hahaha. Thanks. That made my night.
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soniczip
09-08-2006, 09:10 PM
> America sucks. Nobody has freedoms. George W. Bush is a
> piece of shit.
>

<a href=http://www.flowersforjack.ytmnd.com>You know what you need?</a>
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Reaper man
09-08-2006, 10:53 PM
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Vampire hunter D
09-08-2006, 11:52 PM
Oh Canaaadaaaaa!
Oh Canaaadaaaaa!

OH CANADA, FUCK NO!

Comin' again to fuck the whole fucking day up.

Oh Canada, Fuck NO!

Sucking seems to be our only way, yo.

Terrorists your game's not through
Cause we are just France part deux

Oh Canda, FUCK NO!
We'll lick your butt and suck on your balls
Oh Canada, FUCK NO!
You'll laugh cause we won't come for you, yo.
It's the dream that no one shares
We have no hope for tomoroooowwww

Fuck no!

Hockey, FUCK NO!
Wayne Grestky, FUCK NO!
Nickelback, FUCK NO!
Umm.. MORE HOCKEY, FUCK NO!
NHL, FUCK NO!
Err... Rush, FUCK NO!
Avril Lavigne, FUCK NO!
Quebec, FUCK NO!

FUCK NO!

Simple Plan, FUCK NO!
Universal healthcare, FUCK NO!
Hate crimes, FUCK NO!
High poverty rate, FUCK NO!
Hockey AGAIN, FUCK NO!
Mounties, FUCK NO!
An army consisting of one guy with a pointed stick and name tag that reads "Canadian Armed Force", FUCK NO! (He died anyway.)
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Crazy_MYKL
09-09-2006, 01:07 AM
> I did a forum search, but the image seems to have been
> removed already by the hosting service.
>

The hosting service went tits up.
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Cornellius
09-10-2006, 03:29 AM
Yeah, but Elisha Cuthbert was born here so you lose.
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Mikey
09-10-2006, 05:00 AM
Canada... America's hat.
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Noctifero
09-10-2006, 11:52 PM
> Yep. Certainly no freedom in being able to call the
> president of the United States a piece of shit. No freedom
> at all.

You = winner.
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Danoz
09-11-2006, 03:33 AM
> Canada... America's hat.

hahahahaha
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Vampire hunter D
09-11-2006, 03:39 PM
> Canada... America's hat.

I couldn't agree with you more.
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Cornellius
09-11-2006, 06:02 PM
Maybe but Canada will always be the biggest electricity producer.
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phonymike
09-14-2006, 01:38 AM
do you live in the u.s? if so, then get the fuck out and quit complaining. yes the government is corrupt, yes our president attacked his own nation and blames it on other countries. yes there's nothing its citizens can do about it. but my life is still awesome! so suck dick beeotch!
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Tsumani
11-19-2006, 02:19 PM
Every day I see evidence of materialism, truth relativism, and moral relativism in our society. I agree that it is a problem and is very harmful to our country. I guess my question is how can we fix this problem? or can we fix it at all?
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CEpeep
11-19-2006, 05:13 PM
> Every day I see evidence of materialism, truth
> relativism, and moral relativism in our society. I agree
> that it is a problem and is very harmful to our country. I
> guess my question is how can we fix this problem? or can we
> fix it at all?

Moral relativism is a problem? It's essential to understanding how human society and interaction functions as a whole. Read some Ruth Benedict and then come back.

Regarding truth relativism, I'm not well-read enough to make an informed statement, but I will say that I have not come across anything in my life so far that I would consider to be a universal truth, which I guess would make me a truth relativist by default.

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Tsumani
11-20-2006, 03:11 AM
> Moral relativism is a problem? It's essential to
> understanding how human society and interaction functions as
> a whole. Read some Ruth Benedict and then come back.

I read the entire wikipedia entry on Ruth Benedict and from what I got from it she was talking about cultural relativism which is not the same as moral relativism. Cultural relativism would be the moral views of the culture as a whole. Moral relativism would be where moral truths are defined by the individual, rather than a central authority. I think that this is a problem because usually when we decide moral truths for ourselves it is often very self centered. Even if we know something to be wrong, we can still somehow justify it to be okay in our own minds.

For example, I am sure that most of us here can agree that stealing is morally wrong. But someone could justify it in their own mind by saying "well I think that I deserve this thing more than that person does" or "well they don't need it as much as I do" or whatever else they come up with. So somehow they think that makes it okay, but just because they have convinced themselves of that, doesn't change the fact that stealing is wrong.
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Mr. Saturn
11-20-2006, 05:10 AM
What if your family is starving to death?
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JadussD
11-20-2006, 05:20 AM
> What if your family is starving to death?
>

Good point. I'm not going to let my family starve to death if I can't afford food. Morality is for people who can't figure out what to do unless someone tells them what to do. All we need to do is kill everyone who's too stupid to think for themselves as well as get along with others, and the problem is solved.
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Ugly Joe
11-20-2006, 05:22 AM
> What if your family is starving to death?
>
What if the baker needs to sell bread in order to feed his family?
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puzzl
11-20-2006, 05:27 AM
> Good point. I'm not going to let my family starve to death
> if I can't afford food. Morality is for people who can't
> figure out what to do unless someone tells them what to do.
> All we need to do is kill everyone who's too stupid to think
> for themselves as well as get along with others, and the
> problem is solved.

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puzzl
11-20-2006, 05:31 AM
> What if the baker needs to sell bread in order to feed his
> family?
>

you kill his family. Problem solved.
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Ugly Joe
11-20-2006, 05:32 AM
> you kill his family. Problem solved.

Actually, you just give your family the bread instead of selling it <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

But...that only works for a little while.
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Mr. Saturn
11-20-2006, 05:39 AM
> > What if your family is starving to death?
> >
> What if the baker needs to sell bread in order to feed his
> family?

What if this hypothetical baker is an employee of Wal-mart?


Or what if it's December, and three people are stuck in a cave until March. One of the people has a secret stash that could feed three people for more than the four months. He refuses to share any of it. Is it ethical to steal it then?
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SpaceTiger
11-20-2006, 05:56 AM
> you kill his family. Problem solved.

What if his son comes back from the dead to hunt you and your attempt to chain him underwater in the lake from whence he came fails to quell his bloodlust?
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Ugly Joe
11-20-2006, 12:28 PM
> What if this hypothetical baker is an employee of Wal-mart?

Relevance? The baker would be paid by Wal-mart, not by selling bread. This isn't the same question.

> Or what if it's December, and three people are stuck in a
> cave until March. One of the people has a secret stash that
> could feed three people for more than the four months. He
> refuses to share any of it. Is it ethical to steal it then?

I would question how this single person ended up with more than enough bread, and all of the others ended up with nothing. If the one person worked hard to earn all of that bread while the other three people did nothing and thus earned no bread, is it fair to expect the one person to share his bread?
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CEpeep
11-20-2006, 01:36 PM
> Or what if it's December, and three people are stuck in a
> cave until March. One of the people has a secret stash that
> could feed three people for more than the four months. He
> refuses to share any of it. Is it ethical to steal it then?

Yes.
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Mr. Saturn
11-20-2006, 05:45 PM
> Relevance? The baker would be paid by Wal-mart, not by
> selling bread. This isn't the same question.

Fine, I'll rephrase it. What if your family was starving, and the only grocery store is a Wal-mart?

> I would question how this single person ended up with more
> than enough bread, and all of the others ended up with
> nothing.

Fine. I'll present a similar situation. A miserly rich guy feels a nuclear war is imminent. So he builds his own fallout shelter. Since he is super rich, this thing is huge and is stocked to the brim with all sorts of comestibles. Nuclear war does come, and by chance, he has plenty of time to get into his fallout shelter. As he runs to his shelter, he sees his (rather poor) neighbors and their newborn. Out of his typical character, he tells them to grab whatever food they can and hurry to his shelter. This being their only salvation, they go and scrounge whatever food they can come up with and go inside the shelter. A week passes and the couple and their child run out of food. This miserly fellow refuses to share his utterly massive stocks of food. As an added bonus, the baby is sick and will surely die without medicine the miserly fellow has in ample supply.

Is it ethical to steal the medicine and food then?
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Reaper man
11-20-2006, 07:34 PM
> What if his son comes back from the dead to hunt you and
> your attempt to chain him underwater in the lake from whence
> he came fails to quell his bloodlust?

What if I was to stick my cock and balls into <a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM94aorYVS4>this?</a>

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Ugly Joe
11-20-2006, 11:50 PM
> Fine, I'll rephrase it. What if your family was starving,
> and the only grocery store is a Wal-mart?

I like how you never answered my initial question <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

> Fine. I'll present a similar situation.
> yada yada yada.
> Is it ethical to steal the medicine and food then?

No, not at all.

Positing that stealing is always wrong (that is, bluntly and more generally, that ethics are not relative), stealing in this situation is of course wrong. The circumstances don't change anything.

However, we're only human. Ethics should be something that we strive for, but not something that we should be expected to be able to follow in every circumstance.

So would I steal in that situation? Absolutely. It would be going against my code of ethics. I would feel bad for having to do it. But, nobody wants a dead baby. I guess you could call it "the lesser of two evils". Notice that both of them are evil.

edit: pesky prepositions...

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Mr. Saturn
11-21-2006, 12:46 AM
Eh, I'll concede the point.
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UncleOral
11-21-2006, 12:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


I have not come across anything in my life so far that I would consider to be a universal truth


<hr></blockquote>

Oh come on, there are some absolute truths.

Like how buttered bread will always land on the buttered side, and cats always land on their feet (butter the back of a cat to make it hover in mid-air). There's also politicians lying, emulation never dying and Johnny Depp ruling.
Let's not forget Ian's ass, and then there's Punjman being a brainless wonder.

HOW CAN YOU DENY ANY OF THIS?

Reply thread:

Agreed, the people in the states seems to love being afraid, would be nice if more started thinking for themselves.
What would also rock would be if you got a decent system for presidential election. Imagine candidates that are qualified because of honesty, intelligence and ability to lead instead of influence, ambition and no conscience.
<P ID="signature"><center>The Alchemist's Guild is opposite the Gambler's Guild. Usually. Sometimes it's above it, or below it, or falling in bits around it. -Terry Pratchett</center></P>

America_Suck
12-31-2006, 10:30 PM
AMERICA YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! USAMA KILL YOU!!!!!!!!!!! <img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif><img src=smilies/director.gif>
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Alexedishi
02-15-2007, 01:01 AM
What the hell? Have you had your brain amputated? Last time I checked we've fifty times as much of your goddamn freedom here as opposed to those bitches in Cuba and Russia. Just go to Canada if you hate this place so much.
<P ID="signature"></P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Alexedishi on 02/14/07 08:16 PM.</FONT></P>

JadussD
02-15-2007, 04:14 AM
> What the hell? Have you had your brain amputated? Last time
> I checked we've fifty times as much of your goddamn freedom
> here as opposed to those bitches in Cuba and Russia. Just go
> to Canada if you hate this place so much.

As long as I can't publically fuck dead horses, challenge children to gun duels, and download MP3s, I don't live in a free country. Period.
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papag
02-26-2007, 04:28 AM
I hate americans, they dont even know where my old home country is!!!!!! (south africa btw) Dubya Bush is a tool, and a wanker!

Australia rules though!
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CEpeep
02-26-2007, 05:26 AM
> I hate americans, they dont even know where my old home
> country is!!!!!! (south africa btw) Dubya Bush is a tool,
> and a wanker!
>
> Australia rules though!

How is it even possible to not know where South Africa is? The location is in the name for crying out loud.

<P ID="signature">http://www.bentobey.com/images/politicians.jpg</P>