Who legally has rights to the ROMs? [Archive]

SabbathKeepah

01-29-2005, 03:54 AM

I was wondering if third party developers held the rights to the ROM Images of the games they developed for NES or if Nintendo hold exclusive rights through the lisensing agreements.

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Linux is for Bitches

Disch

01-29-2005, 04:01 AM

You can create a ROM image from a hard copy you own. However you cannot legally distribute that copy to others. It's the same idea as with DVDs... you can make a DVD copy of a movie you already own... but you can't make a million copies and give them away to other people.

So I guess you could say the ROM image belongs to the person who originally dumped it... but it seems kind of silly to make that connection.

Gavin_86

01-29-2005, 04:04 AM

> So I guess you could say the ROM image belongs to the person
> who originally dumped it... but it seems kind of silly to
> make that connection.

<img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif> but since i can now dump game images by myself, i no longer find it silly in anyway

<center>From my bed I watch TV, Drunk by noon but that's okay, I'll be president someday

.::http://gavin.panicus.orgGavin.Panicus.org</a> ::.</center>

MooglyGuy

01-29-2005, 04:38 AM

As in, "do the programmers own the game code and data, does the programmers' company, or does the licenser".

Disch

01-29-2005, 04:45 AM

> As in, "do the programmers own the game code and data, does
> the programmers' company, or does the licenser".

whatev

SabbathKeepah

01-29-2005, 05:14 AM

I mean the information in the ROM. The game itself.

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Linux is for Bitches

thegodofhellfire

01-29-2005, 10:23 AM

> I mean the information in the ROM. The game itself.

Almost certainly the publisher. Same goes with any book or album. Ever see "lyrics reproduced with permission" on the sleeve note? It's because the record company owns them, in the same way that a publisher owns the code of games it publishes, unless ownership rights were somehow reserved in the contract (but the developer would have to be in a pretty strong negotiating position to manage that - maybe someone like Peter Molyneux could get away with it).

As for the license-holder (eg Nintendo, etc), so far as I understand, that's more to do with rights and permissions to have games released on any given system, sometimes exclusively. It's not at all related to ownership rights for the intellectual property.

Danoz

01-29-2005, 05:39 PM

Nintendo makes it pretty clear that ROMs are illegal. They prevent Nintendo from releasing 4 NES games in a Gamecube Package for 25 bucks whenever they want. GBA ROMs, I would say, is warez pure and simple. The information in the copied game still belongs to it's respective owner 100%. It's just like scanning a work of art... the scan of the work of art isn't yours, it's still the authors.

Frankly, I still have the lost hope that Nintendo would join the emulation community in making romhacking tools and cool emulators on the freeware market, just to see the smile on our faces.... but then again, I'm delusional ;)

http://oz3d.com/reagansignature.jpg

MooglyGuy

01-29-2005, 07:12 PM

> Nintendo makes it pretty clear that ROMs are illegal. They
> prevent Nintendo from releasing 4 NES games in a Gamecube
> Package for 25 bucks whenever they want.

They do? Wow, that's news to me, since there are 19 emulatd NES games available in Animal Crossing, which was made by Nintendo.

MegaManJuno

01-29-2005, 07:28 PM

...Or even the Zelda Collector's disc (2 NES games, 2 N64 games).

...Or even Metroid on the Metroid Prime disc...

So that's at least 24 ROM images I know of at the moment for the GameCube, right offhand.

Not to even mention the NES/Famicom series for GBA...

AkaneJones

01-30-2005, 09:39 AM

...Or 6 NES games and 1 SNES games on the Megaman Collectors disk.

<hr>
<center>
http://members.aol.com/AkaneJones/Pics/LMleh.gifhttp://members.aol.com/AkaneJones/Pics/LynnStatus.png
</center>

Danoz

01-30-2005, 03:47 PM

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/faqs/legal.html#helping

http://oz3d.com/reagansignature.jpg

MooglyGuy

01-30-2005, 07:07 PM

> http://www.nintendo.com/corp/faqs/legal.html#helping

Posting links does not change the fact that I own two games that Nintendo have released that contain emulators. Those legal comments are only applicable people who, you know, don't actually own the rights to the games. Like you and I. No matter how much you claim otherwise, those links will not cause all of the Animal Crossing discs - emulating Balloon Fight, Clu Clu Land, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., Super Mario Bros., Legend of Zelda, Ice Climber, Punchout, Wario's Woods, and 10 other NES games - to vanish into the ethereal realm, it will not suddenly negate the existence of the Wind Waker bonus disc with The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and The Legend of Zelda: Master Quest emulated, it will not erase all memories of the additional Zelda bonus disc with Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 emulated on it, it will not warp all copies of Metroid Prime - each of which contains an emulator and ROM for the original Metroid - beyond use, nor will it prevent the release of Fight Night 2, which emulates Super Punchout.

Danoz

01-30-2005, 08:44 PM

I'm not judging or anything, I'm just stating the facts. I play ROMs daily, I'm in the process of beating Master Quest on project64 right now. I love emulation dude, why else would I regular here <img src=smilies/cwm11.gif>. I'll drink to the progress of emulation everyday!!

http://oz3d.com/reagansignature.jpg

MooglyGuy

01-30-2005, 08:48 PM

> I'm not judging or anything, I'm just stating the facts. I
> play ROMs daily, I'm in the process of beating Master Quest
> on project64 right now. I love emulation dude, why else
> would I regular here . I'll drink to the progress of
> emulation everyday!!

Well, yeah, but I'm just trying to point out that while it's true Nintendo likes to claim that emulation is illegal and so on, they obviously don't apply it to themselves. <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

Danoz

01-30-2005, 09:27 PM

Well, not only that, they're also bullshitting to a certain extent. Under the DMCA you CAN make a backup of your own game if you have a copier. Emulators and copiers are not illegal.

In all fairness to Nintendo, it's their lawyers using the harsh, meaningless rhetoric and not necessarily the gamemakers we come to respect for their talents.

http://oz3d.com/reagansignature.jpg

MooglyGuy

01-30-2005, 09:46 PM

> Well, not only that, they're also bullshitting to a certain
> extent. Under the DMCA you CAN make a backup of your own
> game if you have a copier. Emulators and copiers are not
> illegal.

http://www.zophar.net/wwwthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=talktown&Number=249962&page=&view=&sb=&o=Actually, that's not quite the case.</a> Fair-use exemptions do not apply to copyrighted works stored on silicon until ten years have passed, in accordance with 17 USC 904.

Gavin_86

01-31-2005, 12:42 AM

> In all fairness to Nintendo, it's their lawyers using the
> harsh, meaningless rhetoric...

But i thought you loved Harsh, Meaningless Rhetoric. *coughBushBumperStickercough* <img src=smilies/magbiggrin.gif>

<center>From my bed I watch TV, Drunk by noon but that's okay, I'll be president someday

.::http://gavin.panicus.orgGavin.Panicus.org</a> ::.</center>

king killa

01-31-2005, 01:36 AM

> http://www.nintendo.com/corp/faqs/legal.html#helping
>

"Personal Websites and/or Internet Content Providers sites That link to Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo emulators and/or illegal copying devices can be held liable for copyright and trademark violations"

Since when does Nintendo have the right to say that people can't program an emulator for a 6502 computer?

http://www.neohjuggalos.com/pngff.png

Danoz

01-31-2005, 05:06 AM

I got a classic IDSA letter once because I had screenshots on my site. No shit.

http://oz3d.com/reagansignature.jpg

MooglyGuy

01-31-2005, 06:10 AM

> But i thought you loved Harsh, Meaningless Rhetoric.
> *coughBushBumperStickercough*

Oh, no! You levied a personal attack against someone! Now SabbathKeepah will have to stand up for Danoz like he did in TOTT, because obviously Danoz can't defend himself, or something. <img src=smilies/cry.gif>

SabbathKeepah

01-31-2005, 06:18 AM

> Oh, no! You levied a personal attack against someone! Now
> SabbathKeepah will have to stand up for Danoz like he did in
> TOTT, because obviously Danoz can't defend himself, or
> something.

You are quickly becoming nothing less than a troll.
Stop flamebaiting me.

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421571310/15.jpg

MooglyGuy

01-31-2005, 06:22 AM

> You are quickly becoming nothing less than a troll.

Yeah, a statement like that carries a lot of weight, especially coming from someone like you.

> Stop flamebaiting me.

Please, if I wanted to flamebait you I would have done better than that. I was just stating what I predicted would happen, and look at that, it did. You're so predictable.

Gavin_86

02-01-2005, 02:40 AM

> Oh, no! You levied a personal attack against someone! Now
> SabbathKeepah will have to stand up for Danoz like he did in
> TOTT, because obviously Danoz can't defend himself, or
> something.

i was only poking fun, no harm intended ;(

<center>From my bed I watch TV, Drunk by noon but that's okay, I'll be president someday

.::http://gavin.panicus.orgGavin.Panicus.org</a> ::.</center>

The 9th Sage

02-01-2005, 03:09 AM

> I got a classic IDSA letter once because I had screenshots
> on my site. No shit.

They'll probably pay to have me assasinated because I edited the Zelda title screen... *waits for Nintendo Goon weilding the Four Sword to show up at his door*

http://www.xanga.com/ZeldaDDhttp://i.xanga.com/ZeldaDD/ZelDDlogoW.PNG

Some things don't go out of style.</a>

The 9th Sage

02-01-2005, 03:16 AM

> In all fairness to Nintendo, it's their lawyers using the
> harsh, meaningless rhetoric and not necessarily the
> gamemakers we come to respect for their talents.

I think that's probably true to an extent...I seem to recall stuff like PocketNES and especially the Afterburner getting friendly nods in their own way from Nintendo.
I dunno, not sure how to explain this...I just read the GBAdev and Pocketheaven forums.

http://www.xanga.com/ZeldaDDhttp://i.xanga.com/ZeldaDD/ZelDDlogoW.PNG

Some things don't go out of style.</a>

The 9th Sage

02-01-2005, 03:19 AM

> Please, if I wanted to flamebait you I would have done
> better than that. I was just stating what I predicted would
> happen, and look at that, it did. You're so predictable.

You know...this reminds me of The Simpsons...one of the first season episodes, that one with Dr Marvin Monroe in it....

Mother: "You shut up."
Father: "You shut up."
Kid: "Why don't you BOTH shut up?!"

http://www.xanga.com/ZeldaDDhttp://i.xanga.com/ZeldaDD/ZelDDlogoW.PNG

Some things don't go out of style.</a>

Fla Flash

02-01-2005, 07:05 AM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr>

... but then again, I'm delusional ;)

<hr></blockquote>

Migod. *bites tongue*

<img src=smilies/laff.gif>

<img src=http://www.freewebs.com/mewscorner/pika.png>
Mew's Corner (http://www.freewebs.com/mewscorner/)

Danoz

02-01-2005, 02:28 PM

> In reply to:... but then again, I'm delusional ;)

Migod.
> *bites tongue*

Keep it bit old man!
http://www.i-mockery.com/boxes/zelda-box.gif

http://oz3d.com/reagansignature.jpg

Skyfire

02-07-2005, 10:08 PM

technicaly, you have all the rights to screw with roms as long as you don't get caught <img src=smilies/2gunsfiring_v1.gif>

HerrSkofild

02-10-2005, 02:32 PM

> You are quickly becoming nothing less than a troll.

Quick! Cast Burning Hands! It's the only way to stop him!

http://a.1asphost.com/UTInc/images/PCRpreview.jpg
Phobos City Ransom?

The 9th Sage

02-11-2005, 03:12 AM

> Quick! Cast Burning Hands! It's the only way to stop him!

What about a Wish spell to simulate Burning Hands?

http://www.xanga.com/ZeldaDDhttp://i.xanga.com/ZeldaDD/ZelDDlogoW.PNG

Some things don't go out of style.</a>

Gavin_86

02-11-2005, 04:35 PM

> technicaly, you have all the rights to screw with roms as
> long as you don't get caught

well i meant that i think i'm in the clear seeing as i dumped the game myself, and legally bought it <img src=smilies/thumb.gif>

<center>From my bed I watch TV, Drunk by noon but that's okay, I'll be president someday

.::http://gavin.panicus.orgGavin.Panicus.org</a> ::.</center>