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Danoz
10-27-2004, 03:20 AM
As you all know, I live in Ohio. Four years ago, Gore pulled out of Ohio very early and shifted almost all his focus to Florida. Many Democrats believe that Gore would have won the election had he campaigned in Ohio a few days before the election. (Often, when a candidate concedes a state, he loses some votes. Some potential supporters of that candidate see their voting as worthless… and why not? If the candidate doesn’t even believe he’ll win the state, why bother?) Many people just don’t value their vote enough to make it to the polls for a “lost cause”. Gore lost Ohio by 3.5 percent. Kerry has acknowledged this, and he could end up winning Ohio this year (keep in mind, while historically not a single Republican president has been elected without Ohio—it’s not impossible, and it’s even likely this time around). I don’t have to tell Ohioans that both candidates have been vigorously touring Ohio. At one point, John Kerry actually spoke at my old High School and the President has been within driving distance twice. Kerry has really been targeting factory townships like Alliance and Timken where many jobs have been lost, and voter turnout is generally low—smart move on his part. I believe many of these people have become one-issue-votes, that issue being free trade and regulation of outsourcing. So, there’s some half-a-million new voters registered in Ohio now (not including recent mail-ins). Will they vote? Possibly, and I think new voters like myself will appear for the most part. Why? It’s a close election and people in education settings are passionate about it.

My prediction? Bush wins in the popular vote and the election. Right now, according the economist, he’s currently leading at an average of 2 points in all swings states—Kerry still has the biggest hurdle. Don’t be fooled by popular polls, they’ll be all over place and all of them well within the margin of error. We certainly discuss them a lot, but ultimately, the state polls will decide this election… and in the most important of swing state, the President is doing very well. He’s up 10 points in Wisconsin! Six in Missouri and Pennsylvania and a good 4-5 in Ohio and Iowa (recent Economist statistics). Kerry is holding strong in Michigan, but that’s it.

Now, Harvard just did a study of college students. They found that students in general are passionate about politics, and they’ll likely cast votes. A majority of them will be voting for Kerry, and we especially saw this break when the draft rumor swept campuses. At least point, I feel sorry for somebody who honestly believes Bush will bring back the draft. Secondly, congress held a “mock vote” for the draft, and I believe only 2-3 congressmen actually voted to reinstate it. Put your worries aside, vote your conscience. However, the rise in polls for young voters, I would say, can also be accounted that “undecideds” statistically break for the challenger as it gets closer to election time. According to the study, 52 percent would vote for Kerry and 39 percent would vote for the President. One thing I find fascinating, is the expansion of religion among college students. Where Christianity has really been fading in many parts of the western world, it’s actually growing in my generation. While that’s a whole different subject, it’s something I sincerely hope continues.

Any other predictions?


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JadussD
10-27-2004, 03:41 AM
> Kerry
> has really been targeting factory townships like Alliance
> and Timken where many jobs have been lost, and voter turnout
> is generally low—smart move on his part. I believe many of
> these people have become one-issue-votes, that issue being
> free trade and regulation of outsourcing.

Heh, ever been to Youngstown? I seem to recall you living around there. The collapse of the American steel industry absolutely murdered this city, which is now a town, because it now has around 100,000 less people than it did 40 years ago or so. There are STILL people who haunt the town though, growing old and hoping the steel mills will re-open...my grandfather worked in one there, he never left.

Walking through this town is truly frightening. The downtown was once hopping in the 50's and 60's and was generally a safe place, excepting the occasional race riot. Now, if you walk down the mainstreet, you'll see a boarded up theater, crumbling buildings, and drug-addicts roaming around in military fatigues. It looks like a nuclear bomb hit the place at around 1962 or so. The crime rate is absolutely horrendous. Neighborhoods full of 3-floor houses which were once occupied by upper-middle class people are now falling apart and you can buy a house there for $20,000. Still, there are a lot of homeless people. There is almost NO work there. I imagine the residents of this city, who are predominantly black now, will mostly vote for Kerry, although Bush's steel tariff was undoubtedly popular, if indeed they diverted attention away from day-to-day survival long enough to hear about it. Even so, the steel mills just AREN'T coming back.

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Gokuh
10-27-2004, 04:12 AM
Danoz,

I am going to have to say the election is to close to call. Polls are worthless. I only say this because you seem to be quoting an economist poll. Here in Canada, if i remember correctly, the polls said Steven Harper's Conservatives were going to win the federal election with the majority of seats in a minority government. Instead Paul Martin's scandal plagued Liberals won a minority government that was only a few seats shy of a majority.

In this age of the constant barrage of telemarketers, polls have become useless. Basically, I am saying that i wouldnt be surprised if this election turned out to be more definitive than the polls indicate.



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Danoz
10-27-2004, 04:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Heh, ever been to Youngstown? I seem to recall you living around there.

<hr></blockquote>

I’m a few hours from Youngstown, but I have family there and I visit 4-5 times a year.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

The collapse of the American steel industry absolutely murdered this city, which is now a town, because it now has around 100,000 less people than it did 40 years ago or so. There are STILL people who haunt the town though, growing old and hoping the steel mills will re-open...my grandfather worked in one there, he never left.

<hr></blockquote>

That’s certainly one of the reasons, but Youngstown is terribly governed and there are virtually NO zoning laws… it makes all of Boardman township look like a Tornado just ran through it, all the time. The outsourcing of steel companies just helped shut down what was an already failing city.

As for downtown Youngstown, it's common knowledge that you don't drive towards Youngstown at night without a map and a good sense of direction. One wrong turn could send you right into dangerous places you just mentioned.


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Danoz
10-27-2004, 04:31 AM
> In this age of the constant barrage of telemarketers, polls
> have become useless. Basically, I am saying that i wouldnt
> be surprised if this election turned out to be more
> definitive than the polls indicate.

Don't get me wrong, the election is still very much in the air, I'm just making a call. Of course, you have to take into account that Bush is my candidate and I'm an optimist :), but I am basing this prediction on more than just feeling. Also, I wouldn't discredit the polling system too much, you'll find that most of the time they're fairly accurate (this is college statistics talking, I used to think polls were worthless, too).

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IceWolf20
10-27-2004, 03:47 PM
> feeling. Also, I wouldn't discredit the polling system too
> much, you'll find that most of the time they're fairly
> accurate (this is college statistics talking, I used to
> think polls were worthless, too).

Although they are using a simple random sample to call people, it is still a sample of convenince in a manner of speaking...since people like myself that only have a mobile phone aren't counted. This is a growing trend, especially among younger voters, so all those newly registered 18-25yr olds will proabably put some weight somewhere....but where, i have no idea, so it is literally anyone's game. So essentially, since it is a biased sample, statistically speaking, they results really aren't reliable...for either candidate. We'll just have to wait and see....


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IceWolf20
10-27-2004, 03:49 PM
WHOA! What the hell happened to my avatar?!

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Lillymon
10-27-2004, 05:00 PM
> WHOA! What the hell happened to my avatar?!

No more size restrictions. If you have a 150x150 pixel picture as your avatar, it will appear as 150x150 pixels.

I should really change mine to remove the transparency, and maybe double the size. But that can wait.

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Gokuh
10-27-2004, 05:32 PM
It is not just the cell phone issue either. I think the biggest pollution to the sample pool is caused by telemarketers and charities (real and phoney). With the phone ringing off the hook constanly from those idiots has had an effect on peoples willingness to participate in polls.

Dont quote me on this but i read somewhere that polling companies use to be able to get a response from 1 of every 5 phone calls. It has changed to 1 for every 20 calls (or worse). This indicates that the people who actually contribute to the poll are potentially unrepresentative of the population. I can believe these stats because over the last few years I get more and more pissed off when the phone rings because it is always a blasted telemarkter!

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