Drug testing.

[JadussD]

What does everyone think about pre-employment drug testing? I'm sure anyone here who smokes pot will not like them very much, but what about people who don't do drugs at all? Do you appreciate being drug-tested by employers? Doesn't this cost companies a shitload of money that they could be investing in other areas of their company? Why don't they just fire people who come into work all fucked up or performing badly? Drugs may or may not make someone a shitty employee, depending on their personality, how they react, etc, so why don't companies just fire the shitty employees, regardless of what they do for kicks?

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[SwampGas]

Unprofessional, non-career, blue collar jobs require drug tests. I would be insulted if a potential employer asked me to consent to piss in a jar.

It's all about the class of work. You want to flip burgers, you're more likely to lead a life that includes lying and drug usage. You apply to be the VP of a million dollar a year company, you're less likely.

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[SpaceTiger]

> What does everyone think about pre-employment drug testing?

I wouldn't really care, as I've never done drugs and don't subscribe to class snobbery, but I can see why it would piss some people off. Drugs are a bad idea, but I don't think they should be illegal, so I don't think there should be any need for drug testing. As you said, bad employees are bad employees and a drug test won't tell you anything more than what you already know about them from their work quality.

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[Danoz]

Drug tests are a good thing. People who are addicted will have some incentive to get clean. You don't get clean, you don't work-- simple as that.

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[JadussD]

> Drug tests are a good thing. People who are addicted will
> have some incentive to get clean. You don't get clean, you
> don't work-- simple as that.

That's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that if I was cokehead or a heroin user, laying off for one day and drinking an unusual amount of water would probably be enough to come up clean, and saying that they took Sudafed would probably be enough for a speed freak to pass, as there is no conclusive test for amphetamines, and pseudoephedrine being a precursor to meth, creates similar metabolites. Marijuana, PCP, and some barbituates (PCP and barbituates are hardly ever used by anyone--thank goodness) are the only drugs they routinely test for that stay in your system for more than a day or two, and corporations telling what marijuana users to do for "their own benefit" sounds a little...well, let's just say I think of employment as renting someone's life for a certain amount of hours in the day, and what they do when they are not on the payroll is not of the concern to the employer. I don't want industry poking around a bunch of liquid that comes out of my cock.

All this does, like prohibition, is make marijuana more harmful than it actually is. Prohibition of cannabis facilitates smuggling rings from Canada and Mexico, saps up police resources, billions of dollars, faciliates corruption in the United States and abroad, and turns police into adversaries in the eyes of many otherwise law-abiding citizens, and encourages the enactment of laws which invade privacy and erodes rights when existing measures fail to stem the tide of drugs--as they always will. It is more dangerous to buy marijuana from a drug dealer than it is to smoke marijuana, and not being ALLOWED employment is a lot more likely to cause idleness than the actual effects of the drug itself.

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[Kijutsu]

So.. What you're saying is that running a lathe is a shitty job? @.o
Unprofessional?
Non-career?

Basically, what I'm saying is this, not all jobs that require piss tests are "unprofessional, non-career based".

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[Gokuh]

Certain security related jobs and equipment operator jobs should have drug tests (ie police, train operator, long haul truck driver) for both saftey and insurance purposes.

With that said, the test used should be valid beyond a reasonable doubt. I remember on MythBusters that they found that after eating a poppyseed bagel, the hosts tested positive for opiates. The tests should be reliable enough not to produce false positives.

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[Fla Flash]

Unprofessional, huh?
I have been running printing presses and doing graphic design since I was 16 years old. I'd say that was pretty professional.
Accountants are professional. Should they be drug tested? Yes.
My business? Yes.
Atheletes? Yes.
That remark was not only below the belt (I'm better than you are cause I'm a professional) but flat out wrong.
People are drug tested because why? Because people that do drugs are more likely to get hurt on the job or steal from the company. Or in some cases, fuck up totally and not be able to carry out their duties.
Sorry, but 'professional' doesn't cut it with me.
I'm a working man. Sorry if that concept doesn't fit here.

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[Crazy_MYKL]

*new toe*

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[Danoz]

You've made some good arguments that you should stick with, they're just not striking a chord with me. If I were running a company, I wouldn't want workers with drug-induced apathy and carelessness. The way I see it, using illegal drugs is terribly reckless. If somebody is capable of making a decision that irresponsible, I just wouldn't trust that person-- even with an assembly line. People can find loopholes around virtually anything, it doesn't necessarily mean we should do away with it. If a person using drugs can avoid the system and continue to do a stellar job at work, what's the problem? See, I'm not sure you're being accurate here. I'm guessing most people can't avoid the system and the drug use impairs their ability to work. Ultimately, I don't think we should require or prohibit companies from giving drug tests. They should give them at their discretion.

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[SpaceTiger]

> I'm guessing most people can't avoid the system and
> the drug use impairs their ability to work.

Random Fact: The eating club (like a fraternity) with the highest average GPA at Princeton is also the one with the highest rate (by far) of marijuana use.

There's no question that drug use can impair your ability to work, but my impression is that most of the time it doesn't.

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[Gavin_86]

> There's no question that drug use can impair your ability to
> work, but my impression is that most of the time it doesn't.

i think it's like most other things in life: it is what you make of it.

If you don't make it into an issue, or an obstacle for long and shorterm life goals, then i don't think it's really as big of a deal as people make it out to be.

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[Narvick]

I found out my Domino's - yes, a pizza place - will start drug testing. I'm not happy at all. Literally 90% of the people who work for the 3 stores will quit or be fired because of it.

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[Narvick]

Sure. All professional people are clean <img src=smilies/upeyes.gif>
Nope, the drugs just change. Instead of cheaper drugs, they go to the better drugs because they can afford it. Cocaine use among white collar professions is pretty high, as well as methamphetamine. Pills too.

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[Danoz]

Well, again that depends on the drug. A good friend of mine smokes pot all the time, just because he likes it. My cousin goes to a great school, smokes pot daily, and still makes the Deans list every day. These are smart people to begin with. Is it harming them? Why knows? Either way they'll both
say it induces apathy. And even though they say they aren't "addicted", they still insist on smoking it all the time, and one my friends tries all the time to "quit".

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[Fla Flash]

Yeah and I know a guy who does $ 1000 worth of coke a week and he's responsible....that is just the lamest thing I've ever heard.
Pot, coke,alcohol.....they all take their toll on you.
Guy may be on the dean's list now, but that won't last if he keeps it up. The Gobbler started out the same way.
Now he's got a helluva fight to stay out of prison.
Drugs suck.

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[Reaper man]

I believe that's what BIg Lots does. When I went in, I didn't have to do a drug test, but when I read the drug free policy, I noticed that they will only test you if you come to work fucked up.

I think it's a much better system

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[Octocrook]

Your post is contradictory. You say that people choosing to do drugs are reckless and you wouldn't want them working for you under any circumstances, then go on to say that if a drug user can avoid testing positive and does stellar work, then there's no problem (which isn't always the case anyways, as drugs always pose risks).

I don't condone drug use, and I certainly wouldn't want to knowingly hire drug users, but my feeling is that drug tests, at least ones that are scheduled (at scheduled times, or entrance drug tests) catch only the small percentage of drug users that don't know how to avoid testing positive, and of course unsuspecting people that eat poppyseed muffins! It's a waste of money, waste of time to non-druggies, makes the company look stupid when they fire drug users that got through the drug test, and stops people that would probably get fired relatively soon after starting anyways if they're incompetent enough to not avoid testing positive.

Perhaps RANDOM drug tests would do the trick. I would have to think about it more, there might be some issues with random drug tests that I can't think of.

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[Canar]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


There's no question that drug use can impair your ability to work, but my impression is that most of the time it doesn't.


<hr></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


i think it's like most other things in life: it is what you make of it.
If you don't make it into an issue, or an obstacle for long and shorterm life goals, then i don't think it's really as big of a deal as people make it out to be.


<hr></blockquote>

As a recreational drug user, I agree with both of your statements. If I ever decided to go into a line of work that requires drug testing and I want to get high one weekend, I'll find some way around it.

My experience with most drugs though is that they're generally a major demotivating force. Even caffeine can have demotivational effects. I get my best work done when I'm completely unaltered, although I have some great creative starts under the influence (be it pot, caffeine, mdma, lsd, or whathaveyou).

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[puduhead]

> Drug tests are a good thing. People who are addicted will
> have some incentive to get clean. You don't get clean, you
> don't work-- simple as that.

[Preface: regarding pot]

context spin: if you don't get clean off prozac you won't work I imagine.

I recently got back from busting ass 16 hours a day 7 days a week for 3 months straight in Alaska. we smoked weed up there every. mother. fucking. day.

energizing. stimulating. body high. get the job done tiger.

illegal because the man said so. lets go chew some ritalin kids - the man approved! http://www.zophar.net/wwwthreads/smilies/thumb.gif

The Official answer for why pot's illegal:

Because you shouldn't use it. You can't use it because it is illegal, and it is illegal so you can't use it. You should not use it. It is illegal. It is illegal so you should not use it.

anyway i think Alaska's gonna sorta legalize it soon and when they do i'm leaving the lower 48 and stepping up to the civilized state.

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[Fla Flash]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

anyway i think Alaska's gonna sorta legalize it soon and
when they do i'm leaving the lower 48 and stepping up to the
civilized state.

<hr></blockquote>

Pot should have been legalized thirty years ago.

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