Flip the view!

[Danoz]

Alright, just for some fun here, in this thread-- flop your presidential candidate of choice and defend the opposite person. That's right, in this thread I'll be endorsing John Kery for president. Feel free to post your views (and try to keep it fair-minded without mocking the other position). I'm runnin to class, I'll type up my endorsement at school ;)

<P ID="signature">http://www.glasko.com/glasko2.jpg (http://www.glasko.com)</P>

[MooglyGuy]

Bush has steadfastly defended the nation against terrorism in all its forms, and I enjoy giving up my rights for the sake of <s>Big Brother</s> the nation!

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[Danoz]

Calling the Bush administration Orwellian is such a harsh and reckless exaggeration. Thought police aren't coming to your house, I promise. And thanks for destroying the thread's purpose.

<P ID="signature">http://www.glasko.com/glasko2.jpg (http://www.glasko.com)</P>

[MooglyGuy]

> Calling the Bush administration Orwellian is such a harsh
> and reckless exaggeration. Thought police aren't coming to
> your house, I promise. And thanks for destroying the
> thread's purpose.

Oh, come on, if I really inteded to offend your fragile political views I could've chosen from scores of other information. Perhaps it's beyond someone who lets politics drive his entire life, but maybe, just maybe, I was making a joke.

[Danoz]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Oh, come on, if I really inteded to offend your fragile political views I could've chosen from scores of other information. Perhaps it's beyond someone who lets politics drive his entire life, but maybe, just maybe, I was making a joke.

<hr></blockquote>

Hehe, don't take it personal. My political argumentation professor called the Patriot Act an echo of “1984”, agreeing with a student who called the act “Orwellian”. Of course I responded saying that such a claim is both reckless and false. While I don’t love the act it’s almost entirely necessary in the communication between the branches of intelligence and the extra attention paid to suspicious behavior. Now, if we're going to talk Orwellian let's take a close look at North Korea. This is a country that has striking paralells to the warnings of George Orwell in his clever fictions; comparing this to the intentions of the US is drastically sensational.

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[thegodofhellfire]

> Calling the Bush administration Orwellian is such a harsh
> and reckless exaggeration. Thought police aren't coming to
> your house, I promise.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STREGNTH

Well as TOM said, he was kidding, but the analogy (however facile) still carries some weight. You now have a government that is more secretive, more intrusive and more insular than any you've had in living memory. You have a political climate in which an abstract and perpetual war is waged and invoked to shift focus from the domestic agenda and stifle debate (ie claims of "unpatriotic" dissenters). Let's not forget either the thousands of people held and, by almost all accounts, tortured in the legal black holes of Guantanamo Bay and its bastard brethern. Oceania it ain't, but you're not as far away as you seem to think, Danoz.

<P ID="signature"></p><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by thegodofhellfire on 08/31/04 02:27 PM.</FONT></P>

[Gokuh]

To be frank, Dubya is hard to defend. His greatest strengths - determination and decisiveness are also his greatest folly.

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[punjman]

This has nothing to do with your post, but I just wanted to tell you that I think this picture you did is awesome.

http://www.glasko.com/checkmate.jpg

<P ID="signature">PUNJ!
http://www.prism.net/punjman/images/avatar/whitebanner.gif</P>

[SwampGas]

Kerry is pro choice.

I'm not pro choice myself (as in I would not condone an abortion), but if someone else wants to have murder under their belt go right ahead.

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[Mr. Saturn]

FLIP FLOPPER! SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS FOR PURPLE HEARTS! MISSED SENATORIAL MEETINGS!

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[RedXIII]

> FLIP FLOPPER! SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS FOR PURPLE HEARTS!
> MISSED SENATORIAL MEETINGS!
>

Yep. That's Kerry alright.

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[icenine0]

> WAR IS PEACE
> FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
> IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

These are also somewhat analogous to the deceptive nomenclature of recent legislation.

Consider in particular:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Skies_ActClear Skies Act</A> - Weakens environmental controls, allowing more soot, NOx, and toxic gases to be produced. How does this achieve clear skies? I dunno. At least its predecessor, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_%28USA%29_%281970%29Clean Air Act</A>, actually tried to clean the air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act#Bills_to_limit_the_USA_PATRIOT_Act USA PATRIOT Act</A> - Conceivably necessary, but absolutely unpatriotic with regard to our prime, founding principles of freedom and equality. (Compare to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin_True_Patriot_ActBenjamin Franklin True Patriot Act</A>, so named because of his quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.")

Also, I'd try to criticize Kerry, but I haven't heard anything that matches http://lunaville.org/WMD/billmon.aspxthis</A>.

<P ID="signature">The more often you fail, the sweeter the taste of success!</P>

[Octocrook]

> Kerry is pro choice.
>
> I'm not pro choice myself (as in I would not condone an
> abortion), but if someone else wants to have murder under
> their belt go right ahead.

Arguably the 3 most prominent speakers at the RNC are pro-choice...do you think Bush is selling out to get votes?

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[MooglyGuy]

> You now have a government
> that is more secretive, more intrusive and more insular than
> any you've had in living memory.

I would debate that. Remember the McCarthy era? Neither do I, but I've read that it was pretty bad.

<P ID="signature">http://www.zophar.net/personal/mooglyguy/new_jersey.gif</P>

[thegodofhellfire]

> I would debate that. Remember the McCarthy era? Neither do
> I, but I've read that it was pretty bad.

It's a good point, but I think McCarthy was far less clandestine about his activities. Also, while I doubt it was much fun for the accused, you still didn't have the blanket in-gathering of information on all citizens. I'll have to check this one up, but I also suspect you more actively sought allies in your war against the red threat - the existence of NATO alone would at least suggest as much.

But still, while I think those points stand, I wouldn't really have wanted to be around then. It didn't exactly sound like a hoot.

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