Bootlegging

[thegodofhellfire]

'World's biggest bootlegger' jailed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3877785.stm) (source: BBC News Online)

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I see no real problem with concert bootlegging (morally, as opposed to legally). Granted, there's an issue where a recording from a specific concert is released officially, but otherwise I'm not seeing it. Hardcore fans of any band are interested in buying this kind of thing, whoever supplies it, and I think that it's probably wrong to restrict access to these recordings just to keep a record companies legal prerogatives intact. Just because I had, for example, a few Radiohead concert bootlegs didn't stop me from buying the official live EP, and I suspect the same applies to most fans interested enough to buy bootlegs in the first place.

Obviously, there's completely seperate issues here regarding someone's right to profit from someone else's work, but let's pretend for the sake of argument that he sold these recordings at cost. It'd still be illegal, so the core issue remains. So do you think it's right to prevent the release of concert bootlegs when it's unlikely that the recording from any given performance will be released officially? I'd be interested to hear someone else's take on this, just out of interest.

<P ID="signature"></p><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by thegodofhellfire on 07/08/04 06:12 PM.</FONT></P>

[Diskeater]

> So do you think it's right to prevent the release
> of concert bootlegs when it's unlikely that the recording
> from any given performance will be released officially? I'd
> be interested to hear someone else's take on this, just out
> of interest.

I think it's wrong for people to download the show and then sell the bootlegs off of Ebay or some shit like that. If the person that taped the show wanted to sell it at a reasonable cost, I would have less of an issue with it.

As for recording/releasing a bootlegged concert for free, I see no problem whatsoever.


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[Ugly Joe]

I think the music belongs to the artist (or I suppose whoever the artist belongs to). A concert ticket lets you experience a band. Once the concert is over, the experience is over. If an artist doesn't want their performances being spread, then I think the the fans should respect that and not spread bootlegs. Aside from commercial reasons, I suppose an artist wouldn't want a poor quality bootleg spreading since it may hurt their reputation as a live band. Also, if bootlegs are available, some casual fans may be less inclined to go to a concert since they can listen to them live from wherever they want (though this could work the other way around, as well). I'll stop now as my points are getting weaker and weaker...

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[Ugly Joe]

> If the
> person that taped the show wanted to sell it at a reasonable
> cost, I would have less of an issue with it.

No way. A bootlegger has no right to sell their recordings, no matter how cheap it may be.

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[blackize]

I buy bootlegs all the time. I have about 15 Nine Inch Nails bootlegs and I just purchased a bootleg of the David Bowie concert I attended last month. In my opinion, buying a bootleg serves as a better piece of concert memrobilia than a god damn $32 t-shirt.

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[Crazy_MYKL]

>
> No way. A bootlegger has no right to sell their recordings,
> no matter how cheap it may be.
>

That's a wee bit of odd logic. Doesn't it follow that if you take a photo of something you don't own, you have no right to sell it?

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[Ugly Joe]

> That's a wee bit of odd logic. Doesn't it follow that if you
> take a photo of something you don't own, you have no right
> to sell it?

If you went to an art exibit and there were signs explicity saying "NO PHOTOGRAPHY", but you snuck in a camera and took pictures and sold them...

There's a difference. If you took a photo of some dog, you could sell the photo. If someone were selling a picture of a dog, and you took a picture of their picture, you can't sell your photo, since people wouldn't be buying it for your quality photography, but for the quality of the original picture.

A bootleg is the same way. People aren't buying bootlegs because they appreciate the hard work of the bootlegger, they're buying it because of they want to hear what the band played.

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[icenine0]

Ah, no. In this case, the photo is a copy of the something.

Under copyright law, ideas, rather than physical entities, are protected. If a physical or abstract entity effectively conveys or duplicates a copyrighted idea, then the entity is in violation.

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[Fla Flash]

Opposed. It's dead fucking wrong.
Look, it's okay to thumb your nose at the RIAA and d/l music, (not really, but I'm not offended at that).
Bootleg concert cd's are plain wrong. The band is not who you are trying to hurt by d/l ing mp3's....it's the RIAA.
They need to burn in hell.
The band needs to keep on rocking.

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[Narvick]

Now now, you make it sound like most bands are worth listening to :o

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[Fla Flash]

Actually, not since the Spice Girls broke up....












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[thegodofhellfire]

> Opposed. It's dead fucking wrong. Look, it's okay to thumb
> your nose at the RIAA and d/l music, (not really, but I'm
> not offended at that). Bootleg concert cd's are plain wrong.
> The band is not who you are trying to hurt by d/l ing
> mp3's....it's the RIAA.

But do you really think the band are being harmed in any way by the release of concert bootlegs? I really don't think that a CD can be any sort of replacement for going to a gig. Obviously the music's a large part of it, but I think most of the enjoyment comes from actually being in the presence of a band you really like, not to mention the visual aspect of it (I'm thinking in particular of the Radiohead Big Tent tour, Muse's live show, etc). You just can't bottle any of that, and while that remains the case, I can't see how a band will be harmed by the public having access to the audio aspect of a gig.

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[TheRobbit]

> of it (I'm thinking in particular of the Radiohead Big Tent
> tour, Muse's live show, etc). You just can't bottle any of
> that, and while that remains the case, I can't see how a
> band will be harmed by the public having access to the audio
> aspect of a gig.

While I don't think it's wrong in itself, profiting from it certainly is. I may pirate all kinds of things I even helped my friend Mike record a tool convert (but the moron lost it or deleted it or something so he should ide). But I would never make a dime off of it. It's sort of a motto I live by "if you get it for free give it away for free".

If I was an artist I would be out for the guys head too. There's one thing about some people swapping some bootlegs for the love of the music, that's morally fine (but not legally), it's another thing making a fortune off someone elses work.


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[thegodofhellfire]

> If I was an artist I would be out for the guys head too.
> There's one thing about some people swapping some bootlegs
> for the love of the music, that's morally fine (but not
> legally), it's another thing making a fortune off someone
> elses work.

Yeah, I pretty much share that opinion, but I was making a distinction between bootlegging and profiting from bootlegging in the original post anyway, so I think we're in broad agreement on the central issue.

<P ID="signature"></p><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by thegodofhellfire on 07/12/04 02:12 PM.</FONT></P>